Chris McDonough wrote:
Nevertheless, Paul is *still* trying to get someone to scratch his itch, even if he's stopped projecting that onto me. Problem is that nobody *can* even if they were willing. Until someone at DC is actually assigned to take the minimum time needed to get up to speed on this there simply isn't anything anyone *could* do to "make it easier".
I have a really super-rough time understanding this outlook. Zope is a framework. On top of it you can build whatever you like, including a complicated ecommerce application. Why is it absolutely, unwaveringly, overwhelmingly necessary for *DC* specifically to be involved in an application-level project like a port of ACS' ecommerce module when it's not clear that it can generate any immediate revenue for us?
I think Albert's saying (forgive me for speaking for you if I get this wrong) that no-one but DC can evaluate the opportunity and make the decision if DC should do this work. Of course, merely *evaluating* the opportunity is a lot of work, and there are too many opportunities for DC to even evaluate them all. If they tried, they would not have the resources left to capitalize on any of them. Albert also (in my opinion) seems to be confusing this type of application level project with the type of infrastructure that DC has to date concentrated on building into Zope. the ZCommerce interest group probably did not gain momentum because (like many projects) it was too ambitious at the outset, and because (also like many projects) it lacked a cohesive vision for what was to be accomplished. Attempts merely to define the scope were bogged down in competing visions. I'm pointing no fingers, as I was as guilty of contributing to the confusion with 'wouldn't it be cool if...' statements as anyone else. Nevertheless, some people *did* do some work, and others did contribute suggestions that eventually became features in one product or another. So I would say that it has been successful and valuable, in a way. Since, to date, commerce has not been a large part of the projects and consulting engagements that DC has been involved in, it may be a good idea for DC to describe what sort of consulting engagements it *has* been involved in. I don't think that any of us in the Zope community begrudge DC their success, and we'd like to be able to make more informed suggestions, rather than shooting from the hip as it were. For that matter, what community contributed products or code is DC using in their consulting work (if any)? When does someone in the community really hit the mark and provide something that is not just popular with other Zope developers, but with the developers at DC as well? That kind of feedback on application level work as well as 'core' work (such as Python Scripts nee Methods), can be very important and valuable. Right now, I have no idea if (for example) DC has ever installed Squishdot for a client, much less any of a number of other projects such as ZPatterns. Anyway, that's my $0.02, Michael Bernstein.