Hi, How about making a "crappy", "poorly produced", real "T-shirt style" VHS tape of a session creating some small application where a simple object design is done through implementation... Sort of along the lines of me just walking into your offices (DCers in particular), asking you to demonstrate Zope to me, and you just sitting down at the keyboard, and allowing me to run my camera to record what is going on... have some "newbie" there to ask "dumb questions", etc... Get into "trouble" so that we can see the debugger in action (person and tool)... Just a thought... BTW, I have my check book along, and a stamped envelope (without address) that I was going to use to order Linux Journal today... but if this were to be available... Heck, you make the tape, and I'll dup/mail it to Zopesters at cost (or less) for a while... The tape could be "anonymous" if you wanted so that there would be no association or negative reflection with DC... Something quick and dirty to be replaced by more "formal" presentation, if DC ever thought it was needed. I'm not frustrated by what I've been able to download from Zope.org, but I am really thinking that if I could just "watch over the shoulder" of some Zope guru (Jim/Amos/Brian/Paul/all/any/other) for 5 to 10 minutes... that all the gaps I keep running into would seal up for me... I read/ask/try, get past one, hit the next... not sure what I've learned, what I haven't learned... Building a small gadfly based telephone directory that has some active logic in it (e.g. verify state code via stored procedure, have a "daemon" that sends e-mail about upcoming birthdays, have something that ensures specific fields are entered)... that'd be wonderful. My problem is I'm not clear in what I'm looking for relative to the Object nature of things... Is it "the same" as non-object, or is there something "more better" that the navigation of the Zope interface provides? -- Cheers, --ldl ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- LD Landis ldl@HealthPartners.Com N0YRQ Voice 612/883-5511 Fax 612/883-6363 HealthPartners, 8100 34th Avenue So, PO Box 1309, Minneapolis, MN 55440-1309 Shape your life not from your memories, but from your hopes. (Borrowed) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------