Dan - for what it's worth, here's how my zope product learning curve went. I probably had it easier than some - there was an existing product that was quite similar to mine - DTML Document. I copied this, changed the meta_type, and got it showing up in the ZMI etc. Then I started making modifications, tackling problems and gradually learned more about how it worked. I've kept doing that ever since. When I hit problems I would search for insights in the docs and would learn something, but never used them as my main guide (the books didn't exist then). I would also search the lists for clues (these days I would probably turn to #zope first). I didn't have a really usable debug setup until recently (using ZEO). I would say this is a must, or failing that at least set up a comfortable way to print debug messages. When testing/debugging you end up using a complex cocktail of web browsers/code windows/editors/server control windows and you need to develop a feel for when things need refreshing, when you are really not looking at the code you thought you were because of a syntax error, etc. It's still often frustrating, and makes me miss the relative simplicity of smalltalk, but for now I don't see any other platform providing what zope does, as well as it does. Cheers, -Simon