i haven't had time to read through the links, although i will once i get some more of that mystical free time stuff, but i wanted to clarify about PTK workflows. most of the existing workflow structs in PTK were doc based with simple workflows, but there has been a concerted effort to refactor PTK into Singleton objects which give abilities to all objects vs. the old method of inheritance for abilities. In this scenario workflow objects can be plugged into the architecture. Another item that gives support for complex workflows is the event/subscriber/publisher system being developed right now. check out the later half of the PTK archives for August to get some more background. if you want to influence the project, now is the time, make your voice/needs heard. One place to start would be to have a look at openflow.sourceforge.net. This Zope based workflow system is based on WFMC's reference model. It does not have everything you would want but it is a good start. Once reason to be looking a WFMC is that such an implementation would allow integration with existing workflow systems such as Staffware's. SWAP and the newer WFMC XML wrapping would also be worth considering as they would be like XML-RPC for workflow which would enhance interoperability. There is a need to execute a workflow box which would exec a app associated with the box on data -- this data not being just one doc in a members PTK folder but a suite of data for the step. There is opportunity for a Zope based system to be the web publishing side of existing workflow systems, like Staffware's. Staffware's white paper on how they will do web-based workflow begged for a solution like Zope. Staffware is one of the better workflow systems that includes the ability to execute programs within workflow. Certainly for usecase analysis one could look at existing packages like Staffware. For events, one might consider adopting some of the "webwise" event system standards coming out. I have not followed these closely, but I know they exist. One reason to do so is that this would enhance interoperability with external packages that also adopt standards. Regards, Albert Boulanger aboulanger@vpatch.com