-----Original Message----- From: Roché Compaan [mailto:roche@upfrontsystems.co.za] Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 8:59 AM To: Igor Elbert; Chris Withers Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: RE: [Zope] Data-Aware Folder Roché Compaan wrote:
Igor Elbert wrote:
I looked at ZPatterns and TransWarp before and did not like them. ZPatterns seem too heavy for the outcome. IMHO, the concept is good - implementation is convoluted. TransWarp is not ready. If it is going to be anything like ZPatterns, by the time the Zope community groks it, the package creators will abandon it and move to something else.
Before you give up on ZPatterns completely, look at Steve Spicklemire's examples:
http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/DumbZPatternsExample http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/SQLZPatternsExample1 http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/SQLZPatternsExample2
I have looked at them, in fact these examples turned me off from ZPatterns. I read their detailed description in Steve's book ("Zope: WAD&CM") and thought that I am missing something. Then I installed them and realized that I got it right. I just do not like the approach. In the introduction to ZPatterns Steve writes about aspects of a high-quality code: 1.simplicity 2.elegance 3.right choices of what to include into implementation 4.limited scope of object's responsibility I agree with all four but (in my eyes) ZPatterns do not fit any of the above criteria. It would be interesting to cleanly rewrite the DumbZPatternsExample without ZPatterns and compare. I also wonder if TransWarp/PEAK is mature enough to implement the intricate relationships between Doers, Deliverables, and ToDos. It should be - TransWarp mailing list is busy with selecting the package name and logo. ;)
We've been using ZPatterns extensively in a number of apps and it has given us a lot of joy. It is the best framework Zope _currently_ has for data abstraction and it is really not that complicated - it's just missing some documentation. In the available docs to much is said about what it can do for you and very little about how to do the simple things - one just have to know what pieces to wire together. (Maybe I need to write a howto if anybody is interested) We have extended ZPatterns in a number a ways to make life really really easy ............... We'll probably release the above in a week or two if there's any interest ;-)
I agree that ZPatterns is the "best framework Zope _currently_ has for data abstraction". As a new Zope user I think it's pretty sad. Maybe I am wrong - it would be great to see your add-ons (esp. skinnable solution) and maybe some better examples of ZPatterns usage. Best regards, Igor