On 24/3/01 11:43 pm, "Mohan Baro" <mcbaro@uwimona.edu.jm> wrote:

Thanks Tony and Dieter for replying.

Nee probs.

Zope is a great product.

Agreed.

ZPatterns and LoginManager are great products too. I use ZPatterns and LoginManager.

Those are pretty powerful products and have a steep learning curve. UserDB is *much* simpler, and reasonably flexible. I think I made a mistake before - UserDB doesn't *require* MySQL, just any SQL database you have installed.

Thanks to http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/zpatterns_install and other links

I'll have to check that out - perhaps the Zpatterns/LoginManager bar has been lowered since I last looked at them (a while back).

Basic applicatiuon development require a lot of knowledge to setup. This will deter people from switching to zope from other platforms(for instance from PHP to zope). They also have access to free products and plugins from their user community.

The philosophy coming out of DC is that Zope is going to be more developer orientated, and this should help get more 'off the shelf' products available to those who (quite rightly!) want to install and go.

In order to develop PHP applications newbies just have to learn PHP programming.

Yes (I've dev'ed in PHP), but the two products are not the same. I couldn't go back to PHP now (actually I need to for a legacy project and it fills me with dread...)

In Zope we have to learn Zope + Python + DTML + external methods to fully appriciate an application like ZPatterns and LoginManager.

Zpatterns and LoginManager are *deep voodoo* applications. There's a lot of machinery going on that the vast majority of Zope users won't need to know about. Most of the work in ZP/LM is in the Zope-Dev list (here be dragons) and so you'd expect it to be cutting edge.

In oder to show that Zope means business when come to solid application development, certain thing must be built-in into Zope. One of them is form based login/logout system instead of HTTP authentication.

Try UserDB for now - get the gist of that, then attack Zpatters/LoginManager later on. You could also try using CMF and edit out the bits you're not interested in.

I am new to zope but you have to understand that a lot of people are new to zope (and have a steep learning curve).

You're not alone in bemoaning the steepness of the learning curve - look into the archives and see how often 'Zope Zen' is mentioned. I think the learning curve is about to get flatter - I'm feeling very optimistic about the future of Zope/DC. DC now has some of the best Python programmers in the world (if not *the* best) and are wiling to have listen to the user base (witness the Tino sequence-item patch, likely to go into 2.4). I suggest you start a little simpler than ZP/LM for your authentication requirements, and keep an eye on the Zope-dev list for developments in ease of use. Hope this helps, tone -- Dr Tony McDonald, Assistant Director, FMCC, http://www.fmcc.org.uk/ The Medical School, Newcastle University Tel: +44 191 243 6140 A Zope list for UK HE/FE http://www.fmcc.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/zope