Hi All, I'd like to begin a thread on the list to try to gain a consensus as to what the needs of Zope users are w.r.t Web Servers. The DC guys, being understandably very busy at the moment, thought it might be preferable if someone else tried to elicit some opinions/feedback on the topic. A couple of issues that could be thrown into the mix ... o With ZopeHTTPServer supplied as part of Zope anyway, should support for Apache be that high a priority? o Does the average Zoper actually use the preconfigured Apache ... or does he/she use the installation to figure out how to configure an existing server. o How can pcgi be used to best effect? Would an apache mod_pcgi be useful? o How can Apache's proxy handler be leveraged to accomplish integration between it and Zope? o What are the security issues, both filesystem and authentication/encryption, that people are facing? o How can medusa be used to best effect? o Is anyone working on any Apache/Webserver related projects that may be relevant to the thread? o Would anyone *like* to be working on any Apache/Webserver related projects that may be relevant to the thread? ;) o [ Also insert 9,10,11... which are relevant but I've failed to include ] The purpose of this exercise will be to provide DC (and the Zope community at large) an idea of how people are currently accessing zope, what they want, where effort should be directed, and also where effort *is* currently being directed by the community, so as to avoid re-inventing wheels ;) The floor is open! Cheers, Andy.
Andy Smith writes:
o With ZopeHTTPServer supplied as part of Zope anyway, should support for Apache be that high a priority?
Yes, it should. I doubt that ZopeHTTPServer.py will support SSL at the same level as a commercial Apache variant such as Stronghold. For commerce applications, the security aspect is important
o Does the average Zoper actually use the preconfigured Apache ... or does he/she use the installation to figure out how to configure an existing server.
Configure an existing server; I don't think I'll use ZopeHTTPServer except for the most trivial testing and experimentation.
o How can pcgi be used to best effect? Would an apache mod_pcgi be useful?
Probably, though I don't know how high the traffic would have to be before the time to execute the pcgi-wrapper becomes a significant drain. I suspect this isn't a high priority at the moment, because few people will do very high-traffic sites with Zope until they're familiar with the technology. That should make for some delay before a mod_pcgi is needed. -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ Complementary to his is Thurber's remark that "humour is a kind of emotional chaos, told about quietly and calmly in retrospect". Emotional chaos is not pleasant; distillation of that chaos afterward may perhaps be pleasant in some of its aspects, and undoubtedly gives pleasure to others. -- Robertson Davies, _A Voice from the Attic_
On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Andrew M. Kuchling wrote:
Andy Smith writes:
o With ZopeHTTPServer supplied as part of Zope anyway, should support for Apache be that high a priority?
Yes, it should. I doubt that ZopeHTTPServer.py will support SSL at the same level as a commercial Apache variant such as Stronghold. For commerce applications, the security aspect is important So use Apache/SSL with ZopeHTTPServer :) RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:5000/$1 [P]
Andreas -- Win95: n., A huge annoying boot virus that causes random spontaneous system crashes, usually just before saving a massive project. Easily cured by UNIX. See also MS-DOS, IBM-DOS, DR-DOS, Win 3.x, Win98.
Hi, Well... I'd like to be able to run both a native Zope and an Apache at the same time, having the one connected to port 80 passing off requests to the other (daisy-chain like) before yielding a 404... or with "active termination", let the last guy on the daisy-chain be responsible for returning the 404 as needed. This may already be in the cards... but I don't know how to do it. More likely "real tricky"... Andy Smith wrote:
Hi All,
I'd like to begin a thread on the list to try to gain a consensus as to what the needs of Zope users are w.r.t Web Servers. The DC guys, being understandably very busy at the moment, thought it might be preferable if someone else tried to elicit some opinions/feedback on the topic.
A couple of issues that could be thrown into the mix ...
o With ZopeHTTPServer supplied as part of Zope anyway, should support for Apache be that high a priority?
o Does the average Zoper actually use the preconfigured Apache ... or does he/she use the installation to figure out how to configure an existing server.
o How can pcgi be used to best effect? Would an apache mod_pcgi be useful?
o How can Apache's proxy handler be leveraged to accomplish integration between it and Zope?
o What are the security issues, both filesystem and authentication/encryption, that people are facing?
o How can medusa be used to best effect?
o Is anyone working on any Apache/Webserver related projects that may be relevant to the thread?
o Would anyone *like* to be working on any Apache/Webserver related projects that may be relevant to the thread? ;)
o [ Also insert 9,10,11... which are relevant but I've failed to include ]
The purpose of this exercise will be to provide DC (and the Zope community at large) an idea of how people are currently accessing zope, what they want, where effort should be directed, and also where effort *is* currently being directed by the community, so as to avoid re-inventing wheels ;)
The floor is open!
Cheers,
Andy.
-- Cheers, --ldl ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- LD Landis ldl@HealthPartners.Com N0YRQ Voice 612/883-5511 Fax 612/883-6363 HealthPartners, 8100 34th Avenue So, PO Box 1309, Minneapolis, MN 55440-1309 Shape your life not from your memories, but from your hopes. (Borrowed) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, this may come up in the discussion if load balancing using a reverse-proxy is discussed. In this scenario, one webserver would be the first server to get a request, then acting as a proxy, he would field requests out to a number of other zope servers (however they may happen to be configured!). If you replace the word 'servers' with 'server' in the last sentence then this is a situation similar to what you're describing. Check out... http://www.webtechniques.com/features/1998/05/engelschall/engelschall.shtml Anyone done this?! Cheers. Andy.
Hi,
Well... I'd like to be able to run both a native Zope and an Apache at the same time, having the one connected to port 80 passing off requests to the other (daisy-chain like) before yielding a 404... or with "active termination", let the last guy on the daisy-chain be responsible for returning the 404 as needed.
This may already be in the cards... but I don't know how to do it. More likely "real tricky"...
On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Andy Smith wrote:
Actually, this may come up in the discussion if load balancing using a reverse-proxy is discussed. In this scenario, one webserver would be the first server to get a request, then acting as a proxy, he would field requests out to a number of other zope servers (however they may happen to be configured!). If you replace the word 'servers' with 'server' in the last sentence then this is a situation similar to what you're describing.
Check out...
http://www.webtechniques.com/features/1998/05/engelschall/engelschall.shtml
Anyone done this?!
I´m actually using mod_rewrite/mod_proxy with BoboHTTPServer and Apache-SSL :) Andreas -- Win95: n., A huge annoying boot virus that causes random spontaneous system crashes, usually just before saving a massive project. Easily cured by UNIX. See also MS-DOS, IBM-DOS, DR-DOS, Win 3.x, Win98.
On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Andy Smith wrote:
Cool! How difficult was it to get set up?!
Basically if providing a whole VirtualHost via Bobo: RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:5000/$1 [P] Say the VirtualHost is called: https://www.somewhere.com/ Than you would activate the BoboHTTPServer with: BoboHTTPServer.py -p 5000 -b 127.0.0.1 -n / -s -h www.somewhere.com <mymodule> This tells BoboHTTPServer to: -) use port 5000 -) bind only to 127.0.0.1 -) assume the real path is / -) assume it's being accessed via SSL. -) assume the real hostname is www.somewhere.com -) publish <mymodule>
This'd be a really useful addition to ZopeHTTPServer's 'toolbox'.
ZopeHTTPServer at the moment to my knowledge doesn't contain the necessary patches to make this work fluidly :( Bugger Amos ;) Andreas -- Win95: n., A huge annoying boot virus that causes random spontaneous system crashes, usually just before saving a massive project. Easily cured by UNIX. See also MS-DOS, IBM-DOS, DR-DOS, Win 3.x, Win98.
At 11:22 PM 12/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
This'd be a really useful addition to ZopeHTTPServer's 'toolbox'. ZopeHTTPServer at the moment to my knowledge doesn't contain the necessary patches to make this work fluidly :( Bugger Amos ;)
I just checked in an update to ZopeHTTPServer that allows all these things. Basically instead of special purpose flags to override specific environment variables I added a way to specify any environment variable, from BOBO_DEBUG_MODE to SCRIPT_NAME to HTTPS. So you can customize your server's environment any way you wish. Thanks to Andreas for motivation. -Amos
Hi All,
I'd like to begin a thread on the list to try to gain a consensus as to what the needs of Zope users are w.r.t Web Servers. The DC guys, being understandably very busy at the moment, thought it might be preferable if someone else tried to elicit some opinions/feedback on the topic.
A couple of issues that could be thrown into the mix ...
o With ZopeHTTPServer supplied as part of Zope anyway, should support for Apache be that high a priority?
Absolutely. With as much of the web running off of Apache as does already, if people are to integrate Zope into their solutions it needs to be as friendly as possible to pre-existing conditions. <snip>
o What are the security issues, both filesystem and authentication/encryption, that people are facing? ... <snip>
o [ Also insert 9,10,11... which are relevant but I've failed to include ]
The purpose of this exercise will be to provide DC (and the Zope community at large) an idea of how people are currently accessing zope, what they want, where effort should be directed, and also where effort *is* currently being directed by the community, so as to avoid re-inventing wheels ;)
The floor is open!
I don't know how many on this list use webhosting services, but I do, and I know there are others. As one just starting out in the web industry, I and others are not in a position to lease dedicated servers, colocate, etc. for a variety of reasons. For many using a webhosting service is sufficient. I don't know what all issues will concern those of us who do use webhosting services, but I do know there are some. Apache support is a must. (It is already there.) :) The issue that is currently before me is HTTP_AUTHORIZATION. In discussions with my current webhost they have told me they are not able (or won't, who knows) to provide access. I know there are supposed to be some workarounds using USER_REMOTE(?) or such. I haven't dug into that yet or discussed it with them. But I do think it would be nice if Zope could be nicely integrated into the webhosting community. I know there are some who are using other types of web application servers, servlets, etc. So hopefully the idea of LRPs are becoming more accepted. I know there are webhosts who do Cold Fusion, is it a LRP? I think it would be nice to see Zope as chosen for the web application server market as is Apache for the webserver market. There is little reason it can't be. Alot of this will be educating and informing. :) Thanks for an ear. Jimmie Houchin
participants (7)
-
Amos Latteier -
Andreas Kostyrka -
Andrew M. Kuchling -
Andy Smith -
Andy Smith -
Jimmie Houchin -
LD Landis