RE: [Zope] Zope vs. java solutions : looking forward ?
Frankly, it is a lot easier to program in python; it is much more forgiving in a lot of senses. If your developers like the idea of Java because it is OO, have them consider python's strong abilities, and the fact that they will be working with a persistent object system / ODB that can make their OO code much more than a filter for relational datasets. That said, if your developers like java because it runs in a VM on several platforms, Zope is cross-platform, and I guess Zope could be considered similar to a JVM: a platform for running cross-platform code. I don't think Java is a wise direction for a small firm; at least in Zope, you can start off with simplicity, and graduate to bigger solutions without a huge investment in lots of developers in the future. What kind of site do you have? For e-commerce, you are going to have heavy use of relational databases, but for publishing articles, you might want to consider using the ODB, something you are not going to get with Java solutions... I use Zope with XMLDocument and custom ZClasses for content, and it is a lot easier to get things done quicker that way... Sean -----Original Message----- From: Henk Schets [mailto:henk@poppunt.be] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 12:58 AM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Zope vs. java solutions : looking forward ? Hi, We are planning a major update of our site (i.e. building a new one). At the moment our site is based on php,cgi, MySql and Apache on Linux. However, for the new site, we are considering other 'platforms' like Zope or Enhydra. I find Zope an elegant solution for our new site because we will be relying heavily on non-technical people contributing articles for publication. But the problem is this : the development will be made by a small commercial firm (the guys who work there are friends) and they are biased towards a java solution because they think this will be a standard for the future. They do not want to invest in learning Zope en end up in not being able to sell their acquired knowledge in this. I should note that, at the moment, they have no experience in Java nor Python, so they will have to learn one or the other. The problem I will be facing is the maintenance of the site and adding new features. What do you guys think ? Does Zope have a future with respect to e.g. Enhydra (this is Python versus Java for internet applications)? Does someone have experience with both and can you comment on the learning curve ? Thanks, Henk _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
----- Original Message ----- From: <sean.upton@uniontrib.com> To: <henk@poppunt.be>; <zope@zope.org> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope vs. java solutions : looking forward ?
Frankly, it is a lot easier to program in python; it is much more forgiving in a lot of senses. If your developers like the idea of Java because it is OO, have them consider python's strong abilities, and the fact that they will be working with a persistent object system / ODB that can make their OO code much more than a filter for relational datasets. That said, if your developers like java because it runs in a VM on several platforms, Zope is cross-platform, and I guess Zope could be considered similar to a JVM: a platform for running cross-platform code.
Thanks for your answer ! Actually, I think their problem with python is that they are scared to invest in learning it and not be able to use it for future projects. After reading the documentation of both Enhydra and Zope, I am pretty sure life would be easier for me in maintaining and expanding the site if we go for Zope. But I really should be able to convince them that we will not be investing in technology that has less possibilities for the future. Their concern is that they want to make sure the site is save for the future. It would be very nice if I could convince them of trying to sell Zope solutions, but I guess it is difficult because of the hype Java gets. I mean, I am no match to Oracle salespeople ;-)
I don't think Java is a wise direction for a small firm; at least in Zope, you can start off with simplicity, and graduate to bigger solutions
without
a huge investment in lots of developers in the future.
What kind of site do you have? For e-commerce, you are going to have heavy use of relational databases, but for publishing articles, you might want to consider using the ODB, something you are not going to get with Java solutions... I use Zope with XMLDocument and custom ZClasses for content, and it is a lot easier to get things done quicker that way...
We will never be a huge site because we have a very select public (musicians). But we have to provide them with a lot of content (we get government money for that). There is no money for full-time developers (right now I am the only one maintaining and expanding the site), so it is *very* important that I can quickly add pages and templates and leave the actual writing of the content stuff to artistic people (they have no experience in computing whatsoever). We are using a large database (MySql), but I understood Zope has no problem with this. Henk
-----Original Message----- From: Henk Schets [mailto:henk@poppunt.be] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 12:58 AM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Zope vs. java solutions : looking forward ?
Hi,
We are planning a major update of our site (i.e. building a new one). At the moment our site is based on php,cgi, MySql and Apache on Linux. However, for the new site, we are considering other 'platforms' like Zope or Enhydra. I find Zope an elegant solution for our new site because we will be relying heavily on non-technical people contributing articles for publication. But the problem is this : the development will be made by a small commercial firm (the guys who work there are friends) and they are biased towards a java solution because they think this will be a standard for the future. They do not want to invest in learning Zope en end up in not being able to sell their acquired knowledge in this. I should note that, at the moment, they have no experience in Java nor Python, so they will have to learn one or the other. The problem I will be facing is the maintenance of the site and adding new features. What do you guys think ? Does Zope have a future with respect to e.g. Enhydra (this is Python versus Java for internet applications)? Does someone have experience with both and can you comment on the learning curve ?
Thanks,
Henk
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Actually, I think their problem with python is that they are scared to invest in learning it and not be able to use it for future projects.
I don't think there's much investment required to "learn Python". Any techie worthy of the name should be able to pick it up in a matter of hours or at most a couple of days. That's the beauty of Python - it is simple, but powerful. Typically we allocate a day for students (even straight from school) to learn enough Python to start working on projects. I really wouldn't worry about the investment required to learn Python. The Zope learning curve used to be quite steep, I know there's been lots of work done to make it easier, but I haven't taken anyone through it recently to know what its like now. Simon -- --------- My opinions are my own, NIP's opinions are theirs ---------- Simon J. Coles Email: simon@nipltd.com New Information Paradigms Work Phone: +44 1344 753703 http://www.nipltd.com/ Work Fax: +44 1344 753742 =============== Life is too precious to take seriously ===============
participants (3)
-
Henk Schets -
sean.upton＠uniontrib.com -
Simon Coles