Oleg Broytmann wrote:

I have got 5 such messages - on many of my addresses. I don't know how they collected these addressess... Aha, mail lists... :(

Yeah, read the privacy policy on www.digicool.com, it's not very encouraging :-( Chris

Tony McDonald wrote:

As far as I can see, this is an email sent to those people who signed up at Zope.org. Apart from the email sent a while ago telling people that old accounts on Zope.org would be purged this is the only email I (think) I've ever got from some automated system from Zope or DC.

Me too, but this was a very commercial feeling mail which is why it set off alarm bells ;-)

I would hope that this email has been sent only to those people who did say they were still interested in having their Zope space kept open and by doing this, it seems DC have *deliberately tried* not to send extraneous spam.

Hmmm... Oleg got 5 copies, I got 2, that suggests hoovered email addresses from mailing list postings rather than email addresses from zope.org membership, for example, but perhaps someone from DC can enlighten us?

The survey is very small, and seems to be targetted at finding out what it is people want from Zope and DC, both now and in the future. Personally, I'm glad they did it this way, and not by asking for open-ended comment on the list (can you imagine the traffic levels then?).

Well, what I would have much preferred to see is a posting to the zope@zope.org list and a news item on zope.org. Surely that would have been a much less offensive way to advertise the survey? cheers, Chris

On Fri, 18 May 2001, Tony McDonald wrote:

I would hope that this email has been sent only to those people who did say they were still interested in having their Zope space kept open and by doing this, it seems DC have *deliberately tried* not to send extraneous spam.

How strange then, that I recieved two accounts of the Zope Survey invitation to two "old" e-mail addresses I have had. None of which (as far as I can remember) has ever appeared in my properties as a member on Zope.org. Quite on the contrary, the address I'm registred with at Zope.org did not recieve the survey: erik@src.no - recieved survey erik@enge.net - recieved survey erik@esol.no - registrered at Zope.org, but did not recieve survey erik@thingamy.net - did not recieve survey Hmpf. Maybe a new attribute on the member object on Zope.org would do the trick; wanna-recieve-survey-type-emails-every-now-and-then? I wouldn't have a problem checking "yes" on that one. I did fill out the survey, but I don't like the way it was distributed.

Diny van der Donk wrote:

Well, i found it in my mailbox this morning and the only thing i thought was: How nice of DC to ask me what i want.

I couldn't agree more :-) It's only the method of delivery that i haev a problem with... cheers, Chris

seb bacon wrote:

DC's commitment to the community is great. I feel like I know most of the developers, how they code, what they're responsible for, because they regularly contribute to the list. That's why I think the manner of getting the latest mail leaves a sour taste in the mouth. We know there's a new CEO, we don't know much about him, he's never introduced himself on the list (has he?), and the first thing we get from him is this spamlike email. It doesn't do much to allay any of the semiconscious but probably unfounded worries I have about the future of this brilliant software and community (did somebody say arsdigita?). It just seems badly thought out, non-consensual, that sort of thing.

Brian Methvin, welcome to Zopeland - how do you do? :)

This is a good approach. The DC developers will certainly tell him how important the relationship is and how to treat it. We should treat Mr. Methvin like a newbie that sends HTML mail to the list. Just tell him nicely that, that is not how things are done, give him a couple of URL's (http://www.opensource.org/advocacy/case_for_business.html) has some great references. Maybe a post to the mailing list would have been good? I think in that case they would have missed a lot of people taht signed up at Zope.org and then didn't participate for one reason or another. THEY are the people (from a marketing perspective) that they want to reach. They already have us. <vbg> My $.02, -- Tim Cook, President - FreePM,Inc. http://www.FreePM.com Office: (731) 884-4126 ONLINE DEMO: http://www.freepm.org:8080/FreePM

http://www.digicool.com/news/BrianMethvin From: "Petru Paler" <ppetru@ppetru.net> To: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> Cc: "Zope Survey" <zope_survey@digicool.com>; <zope@zope.org> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] SPAM! (was Zope Survey)

On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:49:35AM +0100, Chris Withers wrote:

...

I hope this new CEO isn't going to mark DC becoming a bunch of commercial arseholes who think this is a way to communicate with people.

[holding off the spam comments for now, I dislike it too]

I must have been missed for too much, but when did the DC CEO change? Where's Paul?

Ever really wanted an 'unsend' or 'reword' button on your email client? Now _there's_ a feature I would pay for... Anyway, just to clear things up in a slightly less emotive way: 1. I _would_ like to know where DC got those email addresses from, and why they chose to email that group of people. (the first part of which I think I'm entitled to under the UK's Data Protection Act) 2. I was surprised that DC chose to send a bulk unsolicited email like that. I would be surprised if such an email would entice people who have looked at Zope and then abandoned it to come back and explain why. 3. The tone of the email (and the survey to some extent) was different to things that have come through/from DC in the past. I used the word 'commercial' before when I think I meant 'corporate'. DC has always had the feeling (and yes I know that's a bad word) of a closely knit, supportive, friendly and helpful community which we can all happilly interact with. The mail had the tone of the bumpf that lands through the post from the likes of Lotus, Oracle, all the vars, etc, every morning and goes straight in the bin ;-) 4. I did fill in the survey. I hope DC find the answers useful :-) Anyway, the crux of the matter is this. I really like DC and I really think they're doing a great job with Zope. That email didn't fit with the impression I have got from DC over the past couple of years which suprised me. A lot. So much, in fact, that I wrote that mail this morning. I apologise for the tone and wording, and I hope the unsolicited mail was a one off. cheers, Chris

Shane Hathaway wrote:

We've all let a slightly nasty email slip before, I think. The hard thing is to apologize publicly, so you're showing strong character to say this.

I'm getting used to doing it... is that a good or a bad thing? *grinz*

Now, I agree the community hasn't had much introduction to Brian. Brian has specifically welcomed everyone at DC to send him an email or two to get to know him, and I'm sure he would extend the same invitation to the community. In fact, with the survey he was trying to solicit feedback. Please send him an e-mail, introducing yourself and asking your questions.

What's his address? I presume brian@digicool.com still goes where it used to ;-) cheers, Chris

Uhh, oops. :^) We deeply apologize to anyone in the Zope community that took even the slightest bit of offense at our recent email and/or survey. It was never our intent to "spam" the community. Our deepest regret for any confusion or inconvenience this may have caused. Or, stated, a different way...oops! :^) --Paul Chris Withers wrote:

Ever really wanted an 'unsend' or 'reword' button on your email client? Now _there's_ a feature I would pay for...

Anyway, just to clear things up in a slightly less emotive way:

1. I _would_ like to know where DC got those email addresses from, and why they chose to email that group of people. (the first part of which I think I'm entitled to under the UK's Data Protection Act)

2. I was surprised that DC chose to send a bulk unsolicited email like that. I would be surprised if such an email would entice people who have looked at Zope and then abandoned it to come back and explain why.

3. The tone of the email (and the survey to some extent) was different to things that have come through/from DC in the past. I used the word 'commercial' before when I think I meant 'corporate'. DC has always had the feeling (and yes I know that's a bad word) of a closely knit, supportive, friendly and helpful community which we can all happilly interact with. The mail had the tone of the bumpf that lands through the post from the likes of Lotus, Oracle, all the vars, etc, every morning and goes straight in the bin ;-)

4. I did fill in the survey. I hope DC find the answers useful :-)

Anyway, the crux of the matter is this. I really like DC and I really think they're doing a great job with Zope. That email didn't fit with the impression I have got from DC over the past couple of years which suprised me. A lot. So much, in fact, that I wrote that mail this morning. I apologise for the tone and wording, and I hope the unsolicited mail was a one off.

cheers,

Chris

On Fri, 18 May 2001, ethan mindlace fremen wrote:

As far as I know, the reasons we sent the email out as a batch as opposed to posting to the lists are:

o unique key per survey- ballot-box stuffing issue.

And now when I have 5 different keys - which one should I use? (Well, actually I have no key at all now - I deleted all 5 spa^H^H^Hemails). Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.

--On 05/18/01 12:12:59 -0700 Andy McKay chiseled:

...

o unique key per survey- ballot-box stuffing issue.

Well at the end of the survey it said and please forward this email to anyone else... so I did, to quite a lot of people...

right. so andym@activestate.com referred lots of folks, which is useful to know :) what-was-the-deal-with-the-singing-vikings-ly yours, -- -mindlace- zopatista community liason

Hi I am trying this code. basically i just want to assign the current value of sequence-item variable into another variable. But i keep getting an error message of some sort - either the syntax is wrong or the name error etc,,,, <dtml-in emailid> <dtml-var sequence-item> <dtml-call "REQUEST.set('myvar', sequence-item)"> </dtml-in> Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource. Error Type: NameError Error Value: sequence I dont understand why its looking for sequence when i have clearly put sequence-item ??? can anyone help please ? thanks bobby

Bobby Mathew wrote:

<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('myvar', sequence-item)">

You want: <dtml-call "REQUEST.set('myvar', _['sequence-item'])"> cheers, Chris

<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('myvar', _['sequence-item'])"> Think carefully on why it doesn't work, try writing the same thing in pure Python code. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby Mathew" <bobby@dialognet.com> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 3:30 PM Subject: [Zope] Zope sequence-item problem

Hi I am trying this code. basically i just want to assign the current value of sequence-item variable into another variable. But i keep getting an error message of some sort - either the syntax is wrong or the name error etc,,,,

<dtml-in emailid> <dtml-var sequence-item> <dtml-call "REQUEST.set('myvar', sequence-item)"> </dtml-in>

Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource.

Error Type: NameError Error Value: sequence

I dont understand why its looking for sequence when i have clearly put sequence-item ???

can anyone help please ?

thanks

bobby

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On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:24:42AM -0700, Andy McKay wrote:

Ah dammit this is what I get for living on the West Coast of Canada and missing this whole thread. Now its dead and there's nothing to say.

heh. know what you mean, i'm here in the los angeles area and as such missed the 'heat' as well... however, i'm a little miffed. i've registered at zope.org, started a rather rapidly active zope users group in southern california and been giving zope demos and presentations to drum up interest in the users group. and i haven't been invited to participate in the survey _at all_ ! oh well... cheers, -- charlie blanchard http://baldguru.com/ LosAngeles area Zope Users Group http://lazug.org