RE: [Zope] Barnes & Nobles Putting Zope Books in the wrong place! !!!!!
As much as it would be nice to have Zope books in both sections, I would much prefer that bookstores bundle Zope books for discounted prices with Paperback fiction bestsellers to increase the bredth of Zope's target audience. ;) Seriously, though, web apps or programming and development is where these books should be first, and if they can end up on other sections or aisle-end-tables, great... Sean -----Original Message----- From: James Johnson [mailto:james@tacomait.com] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 12:32 PM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Barnes & Nobles Putting Zope Books in the wrong place! !!!!! I tend to agree, but sometimes mistakes work out to be blessings in disguise. As a network professional it's been nearly impossible to convince some other professionals the merits of Zope. Now as the original poster said. "The Web app section is huge" The networking professional is overwhelmed with so many choices. I'm asking the community is that not sweet marketing? I bet you more professionals will look at the book if it's the only Web app server in the networking section. Let's not get lost in the sea of "Web Application" marketing power-houses. While zope is an application server. It can also be called a networking system, because I can use it to connect people and resources together. My main point is I don't think they have enough money at DC to pay B&N for such exclusive placement. If you can't find Zope in any section you can always ask for help finding the right section. What we want are the people who never heard of Zope but maybe "Web Application". If I had a choice it would be both sections, but if I had to choose it would be the networking section.... Somebody wants it noticed! With this knowledge I think we stand an even better chance targeting the network professional on the merits and usage of Zope. Developers are important, but zope needs to make more headway with networking professionals. This might be the perfect time to illustrate the main differences between Zope and other "Web App Servers" That's why its confusing and should belong in both sections ;-) Imho, -James p.s. I know at first it seems wrong to leave an Web application product out of that section if you can't have both sections. My thoughts are that a developer will eventually find the software and tools needed to get the job done. The network pro may not ever look at the same section. but if each and every network pro is exposed to Zope when they are seeking knowledge in their profession, that is power just in being able to hear one say "I've heard of it". That's exactly some of the things I've been dreaming of to happen.
In retail, product placement is often key to whether or not something is sold; this should interest authors and publishers. I agree that this is a mismatch.
From: Robert Geiger [mailto:rgeiger@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:14 AM To: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] Barnes & Nobles Putting Zope Books in the wrong place!!!!!!
I don't know who knows anybody at B&N, but maybe the authors of the ZOPE related books can all call the booksellers and get them to put the Zope books in the correct section!
Currently, B&N keeps the ZOPE books in the Networking systems section, a hodge podge of books that have absolutely nothing to do with Web App development.
I brought this to the attention of the section manager, and, although he agreed with me, he told me there are other people higher up the food chain that decide these things, and that he could not move them. The computer inventory system would have to tell him where to put the books.
There is a Web Development section, and a Languages section. Either one would be more apropos for Zope books.
The Python section has grown considerably, and if placed in the language section, would be within a shelf of the well-browsed python language books.
The Web development section is fairly huge, and mostly related to various ASP, PHP, and other tools, and, given it's size, would be harder to stand out in, although it would be a more apropriate section. On the plus side, being
at the END of a section (Z) is a good thing.
So, after having to browse EVERY section at B&N, and finding Zope in the 'wrong' one, I'd like it to be easier for EVERYONE to find these books.
Enough said, just wanting to let somebody know. I tried, now it's the communities turn!
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Many moons ago I aspired to be a network programmer someday. What is a network programmer? This much I can say, a network programmer without Zope as part of their tool set is like a ... You get the picture I hope. Sometimes in life what <underline>should</underline> happen doesn't. I'mho we should'nt B****&Complain, but we should do what inspires the greatest of minds to do and that's to make something from nothing. This is a testcase, our one chance to see and make a difference. I did'nt choose to use zope 2+ years ago because it was in the Web app or programming section of the local bookstore. I continue to use Zope because of it's innovates features and community support is pretty responsive. I will say I believe Zope is the industry leading product, most people just don't know it yet. So I guess we will never get to implement any cool marketing campaigns like "Zopes officially a Web app and network systems tool, Today major retailer dadada places Zope in network section sparks a lyrical whipping/backlash from Zope community". But that's ok. Why would we want to buck the trend and be a trend- setter, when the chance to "test the waters" is thrown at us? I'm not speaking for Digital Creations, but I am speaking from a Tacoma Information Technology point of view. I would like to see DC run with this. I remember pointing out in a previous post a while back, how the "CMF" was always a part of Zope and should not be a separate product, so I'm not surprised to see it "becoming" part of Zope3, because it never really left. The response I received at the time was something like developers rule! I had no problem with that. How long are developers going to rule? Or should I say rule out. because here they go again. They see the tool as only theirs to which they can build applications. The truth of the matter is the tool is an easier tool for network administrators to administrator a network of users and resources than to develop with Zope "Zen". So once again lets take the opportunity to open up the new markets that was talked about earlier, because realistically you can't achieve those kind of numbers with things like this happening. Ok I'll say it, Developers run ZarterTown. DEVELOPERS RUN ZARTERTOWN. ;-) All in fun the developers truly are the unsung heroes who bring us this first-rate software. But in the case of the Barnes and Noble book placement I say let is ride for awhile and let's get what we can from it.<underline> I'mho, </underline>-James <color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>On 4 Mar 2002, at 12:42, sean.upton@uniontrib.com wrote: <color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> As much as it would be nice to have Zope books in both sections, I would
much prefer that bookstores bundle Zope books for discounted prices with
Paperback fiction bestsellers to increase the bredth of Zope's target
audience. ;)
Seriously, though, web apps or programming and development is where these
books should be first, and if they can end up on other sections or
aisle-end-tables, great...
Sean
-----Original Message-----
From: James Johnson [mailto:james@tacomait.com]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 12:32 PM
To: zope@zope.org
Subject: [Zope] Barnes & Nobles Putting Zope Books in the wrong place!
!!!!!
I tend to agree, but sometimes mistakes work out to be blessings
in disguise. As a network professional it's been nearly impossible
to convince some other professionals the merits of Zope.
Now as the original poster said. "The Web app section is huge"
The networking professional is overwhelmed with so many choices.
I'm asking the community is that not sweet marketing? I bet you
more professionals will look at the book if it's the only Web app
server in the networking section. Let's not get lost in the sea of
"Web Application" marketing power-houses.
While zope is an application server. It can also be called a
networking system, because I can use it to connect people and
resources together.
My main point is I don't think they have enough money at DC to
pay B&N for such exclusive placement. If you can't find Zope in
any section you can always ask for help finding the right section.
What we want are the people who never heard of Zope but maybe
"Web Application".
If I had a choice it would be both sections, but if I had to choose it
would be the networking section.... Somebody wants it noticed!
With this knowledge I think we stand an even better chance
targeting the network professional on the merits and usage of Zope.
Developers are important, but zope needs to make more headway
with networking professionals. This might be the perfect time to
illustrate the main differences between Zope and other "Web App
Servers" That's why its confusing and should belong in both
sections ;-)
Imho,
-James
p.s.
I know at first it seems wrong to leave an Web application product
out of that section if you can't have both sections. My thoughts are
that a developer will eventually find the software and tools needed
to get the job done. The network pro may not ever look at the
same section. but if each and every network pro is exposed to
Zope when they are seeking knowledge in their profession, that is
power just in being able to hear one say "I've heard of it". That's
exactly some of the things I've been dreaming of to happen.
In retail, product placement is often key to whether or not something
is sold; this should interest authors and publishers. I agree that
this is a mismatch.
From: Robert Geiger [mailto:rgeiger@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:14 AM
To: zope@zope.org
Subject: [Zope] Barnes & Nobles Putting Zope Books in the wrong
place!!!!!!
I don't know who knows anybody at B&N, but maybe the authors of the
ZOPE related books can all call the booksellers and get them to put
the Zope books in the correct section!
Currently, B&N keeps the ZOPE books in the Networking systems section,
a hodge podge of books that have absolutely nothing to do with Web App
development.
I brought this to the attention of the section manager, and, although
he agreed with me, he told me there are other people higher up the
food chain that decide these things, and that he could not move them.
The computer inventory system would have to tell him where to put the
books.
There is a Web Development section, and a Languages section. Either
one would be more apropos for Zope books.
The Python section has grown considerably, and if placed in the
language section, would be within a shelf of the well-browsed python
language books.
The Web development section is fairly huge, and mostly related to
various ASP, PHP, and other tools, and, given it's size, would be
harder to stand out in, although it would be a more apropriate
section. On the plus side, being
at the END of a section (Z) is a good thing.
So, after having to browse EVERY section at B&N, and finding Zope in
the 'wrong' one, I'd like it to be easier for EVERYONE to find these
books.
Enough said, just wanting to let somebody know. I tried, now it's the
communities turn!
_______________________________________________
Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
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participants (2)
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James Johnson -
sean.upton＠uniontrib.com