Request regarding 'Hotfixes'
I would like to ask that people developing patches to Zope that use the same method as ZC Hotfixes _NOT_ call them Hotfixes. It is confusing and misleading, and is causing a bit of a stir around here. Hotfixes should be reserved to ZC fixes to Zope security issues. This is the origin of the use in Zope, and many have already associated a Zope Hotfix with a security fix. Additionally, to those who review announcements/products on Zope.org for publication, could you _please_ not approve those that call themselves Hotfixes, unless of course they come from ZC? I have had a number of people come to me and ask just what security problem there is with Image tags, as a result of the recent Imagetag 'hotfix' announcement on zope.org. It is very important for the distinctin to be made. Consider the new reporter, who has seen ZC/DC issue security fixes, labelling them Hotfixes. Now imagine what happens when they see a list of fifteen, twenty, thirty 'hotfixes', what are they going to assume? Yes, we would hope they would do some research, though we _know_ that in many cases they will not. Next thing you know, Zope has twenty or thirty security exploits you need to fix. We do not need this. Anyway, just thought I would relay that. When I tell people these are not issues, I then get questioned as to why they are labelled as Hotfixes. Unfortunately, I do not have kind words with respect to the announcement/author's naming choice to reply to that with. The-road-to-a-bad-reputation-is-paved-with-mislabelled-hotfixes-ly y'rs Bill Anderson
From: Bill Anderson <anderson@hp.com>
It is very important for the distinctin to be made. Consider the new reporter, who has seen ZC/DC issue security fixes, labelling them Hotfixes. Now imagine what happens when they see a list of fifteen, twenty, thirty 'hotfixes', what are they going to assume?
OK, so what do we call them? Monkey patches? ;) To my mind, a "Product" adds functionality to Zope, it doesn't change some core behavior (thought there are products out there that do, like ZDebug). So I suggest we need a way to distinguish these types of hotfix-methodology based products. Or a subclass of Product... I can't think of a good name. Patch would again imply fixing something...
On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:55:58PM -0400, marc lindahl wrote:
From: Bill Anderson <anderson@hp.com>
It is very important for the distinctin to be made. Consider the new reporter, who has seen ZC/DC issue security fixes, labelling them Hotfixes. Now imagine what happens when they see a list of fifteen, twenty, thirty 'hotfixes', what are they going to assume?
OK, so what do we call them? Monkey patches? ;) To my mind, a "Product" adds functionality to Zope, it doesn't change some core behavior (thought there are products out there that do, like ZDebug). So I suggest we need a way to distinguish these types of hotfix-methodology based products. Or a subclass of Product... I can't think of a good name. Patch would again imply fixing something...
coreMods? flyingMods? (as in "on the fly") coreJimmies? (think east coast ice cream) pixieDust?
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OK, so what do we call them? Monkey patches? ;) To my mind, a "Product" adds functionality to Zope, it doesn't change some core behavior (thought there are products out there that do, like ZDebug). So I suggest we need a way to distinguish these types of hotfix-methodology based products. Or a subclass of Product... I can't think of a good name. Patch would again imply fixing something...
coreMods? flyingMods? (as in "on the fly") coreJimmies? (think east coast ice cream) pixieDust?
I was thinking of <something>Extension. Maybe coreExtension. I don't know, I'm terrible with names. The last five hampsters I had, I called Buddy. Now that I'm getting a puppy, I need to think of a name. Guess what? LOL. Tommy Innovation: The Best Way To Predict The Future ... Is To Create It.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:46:36PM -0800, Tommy Johnson wrote:
OK, so what do we call them? Monkey patches? ;) coreMods? flyingMods? (as in "on the fly") coreJimmies? (think east coast ice cream) pixieDust?
hotMod Think of the advantages: comes with a prebuilt theme song ...Son, your're gonna drive Jim to drinkin', if you don't stop using that hot...Mod..thinkin'. (sung to "Hot Rod Lincoln") For the younger fancy free among you, you can start hotMod Magazine. Photo bikini bimbos with your creations. Meet said bb's. (Or if you are more inclined, photo and meet thong thangs). Jim
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Patch would again imply fixing something...
... but more in a sense of adding functionality ("I patched my Zope to work with my toaster!"). So "HotPatch" would be much better than "HotFix". The next better name I can come up with is "HotChange", but that one is a bit lame I guess ... Joachim
... but more in a sense of adding functionality ("I patched my Zope to work with my toaster!"). So "HotPatch" would be much better than "HotFix". The next better name I can come up with is "HotChange", but that one is a bit lame I guess ...
Hotpants? -- Andy McKay.
On 24/8/01 12:44 am, "Andy McKay" <andym@ActiveState.com> wrote:
... but more in a sense of adding functionality ("I patched my Zope to work with my toaster!"). So "HotPatch" would be much better than "HotFix". The next better name I can come up with is "HotChange", but that one is a bit lame I guess ...
Hotpants? -- Andy McKay.
..err Andy, in the UK, 'pants' means 'not very good' (or something even worse) ;) Tone. -- Dr Tony McDonald, Assistant Director, FMCC, http://www.fmcc.org.uk/ The Medical School, Newcastle University Tel: +44 191 243 6140 A Zope list for UK HE/FE http://www.fmcc.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/zope
... but more in a sense of adding functionality ("I patched my Zope to work with my toaster!"). So "HotPatch" would be much better than "HotFix". The next better name I can come up with is "HotChange", but that one is a bit lame I guess ...
Hotpants? -- Andy McKay.
..err Andy, in the UK, 'pants' means 'not very good' (or something even worse) ;)
True, I should have spotted that with all the Coronation Street I watch. Hotpants over here are quite different, but I wont go there. HotPatch is my favourite. Cheers. -- Andy McKay.
Hi all, Maybe I am goofy, but it seems to me that nobody is using the term correctly. If I am not mistaken the use of "hot" in this context implies that the "patch" or "fix" can be applied without shutting down or restarting. As we know this isn't the case here or with the Zope "Hotfixes" so if we _want_ to get technical about it we should change the whole of it and not argue about it. Just my $0.02, -- Jeffrey D. Peterson Webmaster/Web & Web Applications Engineer Range TV Cable & Broadband 1818 E. 3rd Ave. Hibbing, MN 55746 jpeterso@rangebroadband.com
From: "Joachim Werner" <joe@iuveno-net.de>
... but more in a sense of adding functionality ("I patched my Zope to work with my toaster!"). So "HotPatch" would be much better than "HotFix". The next better name I can come up with is "HotChange", but that one is a bit lame I guess ...
HotPatch! Hey... not bad!!!
On Thu, 2001-08-23 at 17:47, marc lindahl wrote:
From: "Joachim Werner" <joe@iuveno-net.de>
... but more in a sense of adding functionality ("I patched my Zope to work with my toaster!"). So "HotPatch" would be much better than "HotFix". The next better name I can come up with is "HotChange", but that one is a bit lame I guess ...
HotPatch! Hey... not bad!!!
heh, cool, I must be on to something here .. while I type up my ideas, and it seems othes are on a simliar track. :) Cool :)
"Gorilla Patch" or "Monkey Patch" is the vernacular inside ZC. Bill Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 2001-08-23 at 17:47, marc lindahl wrote:
From: "Joachim Werner" <joe@iuveno-net.de>
... but more in a sense of adding functionality ("I patched my Zope to work with my toaster!"). So "HotPatch" would be much better than "HotFix". The next better name I can come up with is "HotChange", but that one is a bit lame I guess ...
HotPatch! Hey... not bad!!!
heh, cool, I must be on to something here .. while I type up my ideas, and it seems othes are on a simliar track. :)
Cool :)
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-- Chris McDonough Zope Corporation http://www.zope.org http://www.zope.com "Killing hundreds of birds with thousands of stones"
(forgot to send to list last night ... ooops) On Thu, 2001-08-23 at 13:55, marc lindahl wrote:
From: Bill Anderson <anderson@hp.com>
It is very important for the distinctin to be made. Consider the new reporter, who has seen ZC/DC issue security fixes, labelling them Hotfixes. Now imagine what happens when they see a list of fifteen, twenty, thirty 'hotfixes', what are they going to assume?
OK, so what do we call them? Monkey patches? ;) To my mind, a "Product" adds functionality to Zope, it doesn't change
some
core behavior (thought there are products out there that do, like ZDebug). So I suggest we need a way to distinguish these types of hotfix-methodology based products. Or a subclass of Product... I can't think of a good name. Patch would again imply fixing something...
How about "Hold-on-this-could-break-things-Mods" ? :^) But seriously, patch is not synonymous with fixing things, there are many, many things out there with patches that change things. Patch is synonymous with changing the behaviour, which *is* what these do. They modify in place, behaviour of products or zope Core. IMO, it should be clear that is what these do. On the naming front ... How about (from the top of my head ... with a mirror, and in no particular order): HotPatch -- It combines the feature of non-rebuilding (Hot) with the fact that it is essentailly a patch to someting (Patch). CoreMod -- For things that alter the core Zope code. or, thinking at the keyboard ... CorePatchHot ProductPatchHot of course, along with this could be the terminology of Cold for patches applied to the source ... which of course brings us to ... CorePatchHot CorePatchCold CorePatch in the tracker Nine days old. Sorry ... no, I am not. ;^) Then, we could have a contrib structure something like: HotFixes -- ZC CoreHotPatches, so far, it seems these have been reserved to security patches, not a bad strategy. CorePatchHot -- For third party hot patches to Zope Core. CorePatchCold -- Probably a diff file, to Zope Core material, provided by third party ProductPatchHot -- used for example, if someone finds a way of applying a Hot Patch to a product to alter it's behaviour. here, the author of the Patch woudl, of course, need to make sure they are following the licensing of the original product. ProductPatchCold -- You are probably getting the idea but ... Same as a productpatch, but would be applied to the actual code of the product. ..nine days old ... It just occurred to me that these names are also Wikinames :) Product -- The current definition of a Zope Product, of course. Though I think some work can be done here as well. Component -- See the Component definition on zope.org. note, that IMO, some current products may well be components under the 'new terms'. (I recall seeing something like this on zope.org, but do not recall thr specifics atm.) Service -- A bit vague, but I see Zope as becoming something that services could be deployed on. The first thing comes to mind for many are probably Web Services. While these may well be classified under here (a bit early to tell, really), I get a gut feeling of this being something more. Perhaps (again, 'typing out loud here'), these could be for things such as Xron, where a separate thread is fired up, and the Zope server communicates through it, it providing some 'service' to the server. Anyway, I could probably add these to an existing project/proposal if appropriate, or perhaps we could start a new one, along the lines of zope Naming Conventions? Hehe, Zope Standard Base came to mind, but does not seem apropos. ;^) Anyway, food just arrived, and it has been a long day. :) Bill Anderson
participants (12)
-
Andy McKay -
Bill Anderson -
Bill Anderson -
Chris McDonough -
Jeff Peterson -
Jim Penny -
Joachim Werner -
John Ziniti -
marc lindahl -
Phil Harris -
Tommy Johnson -
Tony McDonald