"Jason Cunliffe" <jasonic@nomadicsltd.com> writes:
----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com>
Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable....
This is a really good point.
Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them.
How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution'
I like this suggestion. There are three of us (ranging from novice to pretty experienced) here that were planning to print out copies of PDF and go over them at home, none of us has the time to sit at work and read/review the whole thing on a web browser.
I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers, and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF. The authors of the "Planning Extreme Programming" book made their draft available as a PDF well in advance of publication and got lots of thoughtful feedback as a result (based on what I saw on the XP email list). Here's a blurb in the "To Reviewers" section at the very beginning: Feel free to pass on this draft to anyone who might read it and comment. We aren't terribly worried that you will use the text in its current form and not buy the book when it comes out. If you do, the mistakes we have deliberately seeded herein will come back to haunt you. Better all around if you just buy the book when it comes out, hey? I printed the draft and now plan to buy the book, now that it's finally out. (I just hope that the book is printed on better paper than the "Extreme Programming Explained" book. Addison-Wesley sure cuts costs on their book paper -- I presume they pass that savings on to us.) -- Fred Yankowski fred@OntoSys.com tel: +1.630.879.1312 Principal Consultant www.OntoSys.com fax: +1.630.879.1370 OntoSys, Inc 38W242 Deerpath Rd, Batavia, IL 60510, USA
Fred Yankowski wrote:
I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers, and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF.
I agree, but this is completely out of our hands and we must focus more on content issues at this point then distribution issues. All of these problems will get solved in the comming months, they just won't get solved today. -Michel
Fred Yankowski wrote:
I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers, and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF.
A valid point. I do not care about the format that much. But what I care about is a clear method of referencing the text, to the line or paragraph level, so that we can get comments and corrections to the authors/copyeditors efficiently. A PDF *with page and line numbers* would fit the bill nicely. As would a HTML file with paragraph numbers (as HTML comments, maybe?). The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback, like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally made-up example, do not go hunting for that one). It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on both ends. Cheers, Jan
In article <3A0590A1.F16821D6@haul.de>, Jan H. Haul <jan@haul.de> writes
Fred Yankowski wrote:
I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers, and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF.
A valid point. I do not care about the format that much. But what I care about is a clear method of referencing the text, to the line or paragraph level, so that we can get comments and corrections to the authors/copyeditors efficiently.
A PDF *with page and line numbers* would fit the bill nicely. As would a HTML file with paragraph numbers (as HTML comments, maybe?).
The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback, like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally made-up example, do not go hunting for that one). It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on both ends.
Cheers, Jan ....
I agree about the numbering, but even more I would like to know which version of Zope the book is supposed to be about. It mentions stuff such as XSLT methods, perl methods and python methods none of which are in an official zope. So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book? -- Robin Becker
Robin Becker wrote:
I agree about the numbering, but even more I would like to know which version of Zope the book is supposed to be about.
When it hits the shelves, it will be about 2.3. After that, we will maintain the book to be in sync with the current release according to the as-yet-unofficial documentation development process: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage
It mentions stuff such as XSLT methods, perl methods and python methods none of which are in an official zope.
I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed. Python methods will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the book as being a component add on that must be installed.
So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book?
Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS. Perl Methods can be downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org. -Michel
In article <3A065565.3B855CD9@digicool.com>, Michel Pelletier <michel@digicool.com> writes
Robin Becker wrote:
... I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed. Python methods will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the book as being a component add on that must be installed.
well I think I read about them in the recently released beta, not how they work, but I didn't pluck the name out of thin air.
So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book?
Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS. Perl Methods can be downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org.
-Michel
I'm using the CVS checkout of Zope2, where are python methods in the CVS tree? -- Robin Becker
Robin Becker wrote:
In article <3A065565.3B855CD9@digicool.com>, Michel Pelletier <michel@digicool.com> writes
Robin Becker wrote:
... I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed. Python methods will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the book as being a component add on that must be installed.
well I think I read about them in the recently released beta, not how they work, but I didn't pluck the name out of thin air.
Ah you are correct, I just removed the references to them. I thought they were purged when we removed the xml chapter.
So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book?
Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS. Perl Methods can be downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org.
-Michel
I'm using the CVS checkout of Zope2, where are python methods in the CVS tree?
I'm not sure, I suspect you would ahve to check them out of a branch, and I don't know how to do that from the public CVS. I'll make some inquiries. -Michel
"Jan H. Haul" wrote:
The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback, like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally made-up example, do not go hunting for that one). It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on both ends.
Jan, We have very little experience in documentation delivery and maintenance. It's sad but true. We are however working to resolve the problem. Please take a look at the documentation process wiki, where we have a section for discussing delivery issues: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage Look under 'CurrentIssues'. Please place any suggestions or ideas you have there. -Michel
participants (5)
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dan＠sol.control.com -
Fred Yankowski -
Jan H. Haul -
Michel Pelletier -
Robin Becker