Ok, time to throw in my RMB 0.166 (US$ 0.02). SITE VOCABULARY In other CMS's, e.g., SiteServer, Spectra (Cold Fusion), and Vignette the main use of the subject/keywords is for user profiling and personalization; although they call it Vocbulary, Site Categories, and Category:Keywords respectively. I see the restriction of subject-keywords in CMF as the beginning of standard personalization in Zope... something we sorely lack. Vignette's category:keywords are only two-level, whereas the others are usually multi-level, i.e., a tree. Have a look at http://www.siteserver101.com/book/chapter7/pm16.asp and related pages for info on how SiteServer does it. Basically, you're right in that each site's keywords will be different, depending on its use (intranet, vertical of some sort, etc). An example of this is the DocumentLibrary product that has a legal hierarchical index. Over time we should collect example indexes to easy personalization for websites. USER PROFILING Obviously, we know quite a lot about the visitor before they do anything on the website; we know which languages they prefer (or we think we do from Accept-Language), we know what time they accessed the website, if they have accessed our website before (if we put a cookie on their browser), we know where they accessed from (not for sure, of course) etc. This is good, but it doesn't really give us any indication of what the interests of this visitor are, so we can't make our site a good shop keeper recommending things. We need to create a user profile. One way to do user profiling is to tag the visitor with the keywords of all the pages he or she views, probably also tracking how many times a visitor has seen pages with this or that keyword. This kind of data gathered from the visitors behavior is called implicit data. It is very useful, especially since the visitor doesn't have to log in for it to be effective (you can just use cookies to give the user a 'psudo user'). Later, when the visitor logs in, we can merge the profile of the "pseudo user" with the real user. Another way is to simply ask a logged in user to fill out a form selecting which information he or she is interested in. Data gathered through forms in this way is called explicit data. In any case, you end up with a list of keywords that the user is interested in, maybe even weighted (if it is implicitly collected). PERSONALIZATION RULES Now we need a set of rules, hopefully editable by a normal content manager, to control the personalization on miscellaneous pages. The fact that "business rules" were editiable by normal users, especially useful for shops that want to run many different types of promotions, was one of the major selling points of Broadvision. The personalization rules are basically different queries on the user profiles. Let's say we have a sports site with a (stripped down) site subject vocabulary like this: /sports/ /sports/basketball/ /sports/basketball/redbulls /sports/football/ /sports/football/manchesterunited /sports/golf Let's say a visitor has an implicitly gathered (through tracking browsing) user profile like this: KEYWORD "HITS" /sports/ 11 /sports/basketball/ 4 /sports/basketball/redbulls 4 /sports/football 6 /sports/football/manchesterunited 6 /sports/golf 1 We can have rule like this: Show [the sport the visitor likes the most] = which of /sports/* have the most hits = football (I'm from Europe) Based on this we can have an area on our site template dedicated to promoting products that fit the user profile, in this case it would probably show footballs and football collectibles etc. We could even go as far as show collectibles for the team we know he or she is interested in. IMPLEMENTATION IDEAS I'd like to see a new CMF tool, portal_pzn, that would store the personalization keyword hierarchy and the business rules. I think that in the beginning, we can just let personalization rules be small python expressions returning some results. We could also group rules into rule sets, a la SiteServer, to make them more manageable. Let's say the tool was like this: portal_pzn/ vocabulary/ /sports/ basketball/ redbulls football/ manchesterunited golf/ rules/ set1/ favorite_3_sports = "return user.behavior.top('/sports/*', 3)" discount = "if user.type == 'VIP': return 20" etc. And in our code we would write: <dtml-in "portal_pzn.set1.favorite_3_sports(user)" ><dtml-var "promotions[_['sequence-index']" ></dtml-in> Each user object is extended with two profile objects: behavior = implicit data; each keyword has an associated "hit" interests = explicit data; just a list of keywords the user has explicitly said he's interested in Just like with sessions, we could store personalization in the ZODB but it'll probably be too slow for many uses. We should use a storage that is fast both for writes and reads, which means it'll probably not be very persistent. We could have it synchronize regularly with a more persistent storage, e.g., ZODB. Interests are more like subscriptions, and like subscriptions, have their uses. This is still simple. I'm sure, e.g., Broadvision offers much more when it comes to personalization. These are just thoughts; I don' thave any plans to implement personalization yet. I'd be happy to help others, though :) Bye, -- Bjorn Stabell <bjorn@exoweb.net> Exoweb -----Original Message----- From: Jon Edwards [mailto:jon@pcgs.freeserve.co.uk] Posted At: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 23:17 Posted To: Zope CMF Conversation: [Zope-CMF] List of subject/metadata sets? Subject: RE: [Zope-CMF] List of subject/metadata sets? (Note to self : Remember to engage brain before typing!) Yes, you're right - and as Marc pointed out, you can have everything you need in one catalog. I guess where I'm coming from, is that the catalog is serving two purposes, and sometimes it gets confusing to a relative newbie like me - 1. For the end user it allows them to search the whole system, and is quite often used to "construct" the pages - topics and sub-topics - they are viewing. I'm assuming it will also be used in some way to construct composite-documents. With a large site, containing many sub-sections (or a large organisation with quasi-autonomous sub-organisations/departments) it needs a lot of planning to allow all the possible searches users are likely to want. 2. Behind the scenes it is interacting with workflow/workgroups to allow people to process documents from creation to publication. ...and I'm still trying to wrap my brains round how Composite Documents and Versioning will fit into it all. This is assuming you have a site with multiple editors/contributors working on many sections/subsections/pages in different workgroups. I guess at some scale the complexity reaches the point where you need to separate the two functions... and my needs are somewhere in that vicinity! :-) i.e. you have two portals/catalogs, one for the internal organisation to do its workflow, collaboration, discussions, document-sharing (perhaps on their intranet)... and one where the finished results are published, and the public can view, search, discuss. But you still want some two-way connection between the two. Is anyone else reaching similar levels of complexity? Maybe I should re-factor and "divide and conquer"!! Sorry if this makes no sense! I think I'm having a bad-brain day! Cheers, Jon --------------------------------------------------

Going off at a tangent, does anyone ever get the feeling that you maybe need two portal_catalogs? One for end-user searching, topics, etc. and one for the internals, composite-docs and that sort of stuff?

How do you mean? Wouldn't that mean you end up with lots of objects being indexed in two places? seb _______________________________________________ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://www.zope.org/Products/PTK/Tracker for bug reports and feature requests