Phil Greenspun on ACS and ZOPE
hi zopistas I've ask a question to PG through Slashdot. Here is his answer: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/04/27/107235&mode=nocomment (activate "Find" of your browser and type "ZOPE") and more on ACS vs ZOPE here: http://www.photo.net/building-community/infrastructure.adp (at the 2nd finding "ZOPE", I've not noticed this before. Did any one?) and his list of prebuilt modules of ACS here: http://www.arsdigita.com/pages/toolkit/modules.html I've enjoyed his writings and they definitely broadened my sight. But somewhat feel we are challenged (or are we challenging?) This is a bit sour, especially since I see there are fundamental difference of view on the suitability of OO to the database/content-driven web application, and his has (at least some) big points. See the "Our Data Model" section and what follows there of http://www.arsdigita.com/doc/bookmarks.html. I think even myself can implements not so difficultly what he boasts, except "the Ability to correlate your bookmarks with other users with similar interests". Yes, I know there is ZCatalog and ZSQL but his characterization of ACS and ZOPE)"ACS is the thinnest possible layer on top of Oracle and Zope has its own set of abstractions") half bought me, though the price tag of Oracle repels more, ;-) I do not want to start a series of flames, but any thought? Can our OO Zealot shed more illumination to the weak-faiths? LEE Kwan Soo.
??? How does this mail from Lee Kwan Soo come under my name? Mailing list acting weird? ~ V.Satheesh Babu . . http://www.csoft.net/~vsbabu/ /V\ - Duct tape is like the force. It has // \\ a light side, and a dark side, and /( )\ it holds the universe together ... ^'~'^ -----Original Message----- From: Satheesh Babu Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 2:26 PM Subject: [Zope] Phil Greenspun on ACS and ZOPE Return-Path: <zope-admin@zope.org> Received: from zope.codeit.com (www.zope.org [209.67.167.110] (may be forged)) by csoft.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29801 for <vsbabu@csoft.net>; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:04:59 -0500 Received: from www2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zope.codeit.com (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10046; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plaza1.snu.ac.kr (plaza1.snu.ac.kr [147.46.10.9]) by zope.codeit.com (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA10011 for <zope@zope.org>; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from youngzoo ([147.46.186.136]) by plaza1.snu.ac.kr (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA45246 for <zope@zope.org>; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 02:21:59 +0900 Message-ID: <001501bfb06c$519f1580$88ba2e93@snu.ac.kr> From: "LEE, Kwan Soo" <kslee@plaza1.snu.ac.kr> To: <zope@zope.org> Subject: [Zope] Phil Greenspun on ACS and ZOPE Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 02:16:25 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by zope.codeit.com id KAA10013 Sender: zope-admin@zope.org Errors-To: zope-admin@zope.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0b8 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Users of the Z Object Publishing Environment <zope.zope.org> X-BeenThere: zope@zope.org X-UIDL: ,=8!!B4D"!Dp/!!g`O"!
----- Original Message ----- From: "LEE, Kwan Soo" <kslee@plaza1.snu.ac.kr> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 1:16 PM Subject: [Zope] Phil Greenspun on ACS and ZOPE
and more on ACS vs ZOPE here: http://www.photo.net/building-community/infrastructure.adp (at the 2nd finding "ZOPE", I've not noticed this before. Did any one?)
This looks new. It looks like part ArsDigita University, so it probably *is* new.
I've enjoyed his writings and they definitely broadened my sight. But somewhat feel we are challenged (or are we challenging?)
There really is a lot of good reading to do over there. One good thing about Open Source is that we (zopefolk) can learn from the lessons they (ACSfolk) have learned.
See the "Our Data Model" section and what follows there of http://www.arsdigita.com/doc/bookmarks.html. I think even myself can implements not so difficultly what he boasts, except "the Ability to correlate your bookmarks with other users with similar interests". Yes, I know there is ZCatalog and ZSQL but his characterization of ACS and ZOPE)"ACS is the thinnest possible layer on top of Oracle and Zope has its own set of abstractions") half bought me, though the price tag of Oracle repels more, ;-)
A very Zope-centric application *would* be hard to migrate to another application platform. But, I feel that the Zope object model allows for much cleaner application design than an RDBMS. There are some things you can do easily with the ZODB and ZCatalog that would be somewhat messy in a RDBMS. Interestingly enough, Greenspun talks about how SQL is a standard and (in theory) it should be easy to move to another database. While it would certainly be easier to move to another DB than it would be to move from Zope to ACS, you should take a look over at the ACSpg (postgres) page... actually, it appears that they've changed the name to "OpenACS" and put the page at http://openacs.org Anyhow, it looks like they've had some fun times getting ACS to work on PostgreSQL, so it's not quite as simple as just plugging in a new database. Kevin
participants (3)
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Kevin Dangoor -
LEE, Kwan Soo -
Satheesh Babu