Flash tutorials for newbies to Zope
I'd like to build a tutorials library for newbies, made out of Flash files, covering the basics of Zope and the CMF. The one I've started with is about the use of ZClasses as a rapid prototyping tool. Since my knowledge of Zope is more practical than theorical, I'd like to call for the help of members of the community to review what I've done so far, in order to improve the overal quality of the contents (English faults probably), and to suggest&participate to plan the 'hot' tutorials that could help to lower the learning curve to newcomers. http://zope.org/Members/ausum/tutorials/zclass_tutorial_01 Ausum
--On Donnerstag, 15. Juli 2004 20:08 Uhr +0100 Ausum Studio <ausum_studio@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to build a tutorials library for newbies, made out of Flash files, covering the basics of Zope and the CMF. The one I've started with is about the use of ZClasses as a rapid prototyping tool. Since my knowledge of Zope is more practical than theorical, I'd like to call for
ZClasses for newbies? I think ZClasses are one of the most ugly and broken features in Zope. I would never recommended any person to learn or to use ZClasses....also not for rapid prototyping. -aj
On Jul 16, 2004, at 12:35 AM, Andreas Jung wrote:
--On Donnerstag, 15. Juli 2004 20:08 Uhr +0100 Ausum Studio <ausum_studio@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to build a tutorials library for newbies, made out of Flash files, covering the basics of Zope and the CMF. The one I've started with is about the use of ZClasses as a rapid prototyping tool. Since my knowledge of Zope is more practical than theorical, I'd like to call for
ZClasses for newbies? I think ZClasses are one of the most ugly and broken features in Zope. I would never recommended any person to learn or to use ZClasses....also not for rapid prototyping.
+1 Don't lead newbies to something that will *invariably* lead to trouble and break their hearts. jens
Jeeze.. I am not sure how I have kept 6 production sites up and running for three years without ZClasses. Certainly not the wave of the future, but not the evil that people seem to make it out to be. Jake -- http://www.ZopeZone.com Jens Vagelpohl said:
On Jul 16, 2004, at 12:35 AM, Andreas Jung wrote:
--On Donnerstag, 15. Juli 2004 20:08 Uhr +0100 Ausum Studio <ausum_studio@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to build a tutorials library for newbies, made out of Flash files, covering the basics of Zope and the CMF. The one I've started with is about the use of ZClasses as a rapid prototyping tool. Since my knowledge of Zope is more practical than theorical, I'd like to call for
ZClasses for newbies? I think ZClasses are one of the most ugly and broken features in Zope. I would never recommended any person to learn or to use ZClasses....also not for rapid prototyping.
+1
Don't lead newbies to something that will *invariably* lead to trouble and break their hearts.
jens
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--On Freitag, 16. Juli 2004 7:45 Uhr -0400 Jake <jake@zopezone.com> wrote:
Jeeze.. I am not sure how I have kept 6 production sites up and running for three years without ZClasses. Certainly not the wave of the future, but not the evil that people seem to make it out to be.
"without Zclasses"? Good choice! So why do you want to teach ZClasses to people? ZClasses are likely the most unmaintained component in Zope...but I don't care :-) -aj
No, I agree, I wouldn't point someone to ZClasses today and say "There... there is the future of Zope!". Now if it were about Archetypes, it would be a flash I would watch. :) Jake -- http://www.ZopeZone.com Andreas Jung said:
--On Freitag, 16. Juli 2004 7:45 Uhr -0400 Jake <jake@zopezone.com> wrote:
Jeeze.. I am not sure how I have kept 6 production sites up and running for three years without ZClasses. Certainly not the wave of the future, but not the evil that people seem to make it out to be.
"without Zclasses"? Good choice! So why do you want to teach ZClasses to people? ZClasses are likely the most unmaintained component in Zope...but I don't care :-)
-aj
On Friday 16 July 2004 01:04, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
Don't lead newbies to something that will *invariably* lead to trouble and break their hearts.
Hmm... I'm curious as to the reason behind the extensive sentiments against ZClasses. As a relative Zope newbie at the beginning of the summer, I dove into ZClasses (they were presented in the Zope Book, and seemed conveient). Granted, they had some oddities I had to learn about. But with the help of a couple Python base classes, they've treated me pretty well, and made it relatively easy to build the administration interface around my product. It frustrated me that I couldn't have a "standard" Properties sheet with them (i.e., that allows for addition and deletion of properties), but an extremely simple base class that does nothing but inherit from PropertyManager took care of that. So in short, I've played with them... and my heart isn't broken... and I haven't seen much trouble yet. Why are they so detested, and what are the reasons for not developing the concept further? I'm sure there's a reason - it's just eluding me at this time. Or perhaps I haven't tried pushing them hard enough to have problems. -Michael
I'd say that Archetypes would be the way to go for newbies, and/or TTWType. On Friday, July 16, 2004, at 02:04 AM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On Jul 16, 2004, at 12:35 AM, Andreas Jung wrote:
--On Donnerstag, 15. Juli 2004 20:08 Uhr +0100 Ausum Studio <ausum_studio@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to build a tutorials library for newbies, made out of Flash files, covering the basics of Zope and the CMF. The one I've started with is about the use of ZClasses as a rapid prototyping tool. Since my knowledge of Zope is more practical than theorical, I'd like to call for
ZClasses for newbies? I think ZClasses are one of the most ugly and broken features in Zope. I would never recommended any person to learn or to use ZClasses....also not for rapid prototyping.
+1
Don't lead newbies to something that will *invariably* lead to trouble and break their hearts.
jens
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
I won't defend ZClasses' design or UI, but I do welcome the concept behind it, as the most audacious effort to bring TTW development to reality, ever. Andreas, can you suggest any other feature or product for Zope for this tutorials-in-flash initiative? Ausum ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Jung" <lists@andreas-jung.com> To: "Ausum Studio" <ausum_studio@hotmail.com>; <zope@zope.org
ZClasses for newbies? I think ZClasses are one of the most ugly and broken features in Zope. I would never recommended any person to learn or to use ZClasses....also not for rapid prototyping.
-aj _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Andreas Jung wrote at 2004-7-16 06:35 +0200:
ZClasses for newbies? I think ZClasses are one of the most ugly and broken features in Zope. I would never recommended any person to learn or to use ZClasses....also not for rapid prototyping.
I disagree. "ZClasses" are an easy way to combine various elementary Zope objects into more complex objects. They facilitate creation of simple Web applications. Unfortunately, nobody has written comprehensive tests for ZClasses and therefore they break occationally between Zope releases. Usually, the problem is not big -- but you are using ZClasses because your Zope programming skills are not yet developped enough to implement full blown Zope products. Fixing bugs is even more demanding than implementing products... Fortunately, the Zope mailing lists are very active and usually patches for severe problems are available within a short time. In the past, the availability of patches did not always mean that they went into the official Zope release. But, we hope this is improving... -- Dieter
participants (7)
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Andreas Jung -
Ausum Studio -
Dieter Maurer -
Jake -
Jens Vagelpohl -
Marc Lindahl -
Michael Ekstrand