RE: [Zope] Re: Is DTML a bastardized form of XML, or valid XML?
There was tremendous discussion on the mailing list around the time of the introduction of the new syntax. As Jim made clear, the goals of the new syntax did _not_ include XML compliance. Instead, the goals were: a. Get rid of the old syntax. The SSI style was universally ridiculed and requires typing of hard-to-reach characters. b. Make it possible for some HTML editors that can extend their tag database to recognize DTML tags. At the time of the introduction, XML editors were not widely adopted. That still hasn't changed. Hope this correction helps. --Paul
-----Original Message----- From: Joe Pallas [mailto:pallas@cs.stanford.edu] Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 8:39 AM To: Martijn Pieters; Hung Jung Lu Cc: khowe@performance-net.com; zope@zope.org; info@digicool.com Subject: Re: [Zope] Re: Is DTML a bastardized form of XML, or valid XML?
I'm pretty sure "new syntax" DTML is not actually valid XML, but it doesn't really matter: it's a bad idea either way. The new syntax is a misguided attempt to mix the base and meta levels, which can only result in confusion.
DTML is not markup, it is a macro language for generating markup. As such, it will not always be possible to coerce it into a form that meets the syntax rules of the base language. But meeting those rules, and consequently being able to use XML editors, is the only real justification for the new syntax.
<h1 <!--#if "fervor > 2"-->class="hot"<!--#/if-->> How do I do this in "new" DTML? </h1>
<h1 <dtml-if "fervor > 2">class="hot"</dtml-if>> This isn't valid XML (bad attribute). </h1>
<dtml-if expr="fervor > 2"> <h1 class="hot"> <dtml-else> <h1> </dtml-if> This isn't valid XML, either (bad nesting). </h1>
<dtml-if expr="fervor > 2"> <h1 class="hot"> This is very clumsy and does not scale. </h1> <dtml-else> <h1> ...but I think it is valid XML. </h1> </dtml-if>
Also, XML requires all attributes to be quoted, so forget about using the implicit name/expr distinction with your shiny new XML editor.
The new syntax doesn't satisfy the arguments that were given to support it, and it decreases the readability and maintainability of DTML code that uses it by making it hard to distinguish DTML directives from markup. I avoid it, and I don't recommend it to others.
joe
// b. Make it possible for some HTML editors that can extend their tag // database to recognize DTML tags. Maybe this is a little off topic, but did you have an editor in mind when you changed the syntax? Can you recommend an HTML editor that runs on Windows that will do this? I am currently coding DTML in VisualC++'s IDE using VBScript to paste in the DTML. This method works OK, but if there is something better, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks, Eric.
On Fri, 23 Jun 2000, Eric L. Walstad wrote:
Maybe this is a little off topic, but did you have an editor in mind when you changed the syntax? Can you recommend an HTML editor that runs on Windows that will do this? I am currently coding DTML in VisualC++'s IDE using VBScript to paste in the DTML. This method works OK, but if there is something better, I'd love to hear about it.
All our webmasters here use HomeSite. Oleg. (All opinions are mine and not of my employer) ---- Oleg Broytmann Foundation for Effective Policies phd@phd.russ.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
Hello All, as a newbie I was wondering if those zope developers who use Linux have come across any HTML editors that support DTML tags I note that the Windows developers prefer Homesite. I'd just like to know what the Linux community have tested and found suitable I am currently using Webmaker but it doesn't support DTML tags or syntax checking I have also been asked to mention Dreamweaver I noticed that Dreamweaver has a Coldfusion CFML plug-in Is anyone interested in developing a similar plugin for DTML I am only a novice python programmer but would be willing to help if anyone feels it is worthwhile Just some ideas as I am a python/Zope newbie but like what I have seen so far. i can only offer limited help at this stage but would be willing to help wherever possible if a guru needs a disciple. thanks to all those who have and are contributing to Zope. I cannot keep up with all the Zope from the mailing list but am sure it will be very useful as I progress along the path
You might try Homesite, it has a Tag Definitions Library. I haven't taken the time to try myself yet but even so I would recommend Homesite for editing over VS6(for HTML anyway). I looked at it briefly and it seems like you can add your own tags. I will probably try this weekend and see if it works. Has anybody done this already? Jeff Peterson Software Engineer The Bridge/Befera Interactive Cablenet
-----Original Message----- From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Eric L. Walstad Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 11:19 AM To: Paul Everitt Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: [Zope] HTML Editors that recognize DTML (was bastardized form of XML)
// b. Make it possible for some HTML editors that can extend their tag // database to recognize DTML tags. Maybe this is a little off topic, but did you have an editor in mind when you changed the syntax? Can you recommend an HTML editor that runs on Windows that will do this? I am currently coding DTML in VisualC++'s IDE using VBScript to paste in the DTML. This method works OK, but if there is something better, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks, Eric.
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OK, now the same question (what HTML editor understands / can be made to understand DTML), but rund on Linux instead of Windows? Right now, I use vi. I'll have to try the vim ftp plugins I've seen on the list. Anything else that works? Cheers, Jan ... see you at Linuxtag 2000
jan@haul.de wrote:
OK, now the same question (what HTML editor understands / can be made to understand DTML), but rund on Linux instead of Windows? Right now, I use vi. I'll have to try the vim ftp plugins I've seen on the list. Anything else that works?
you can extend vim to tag hilight dtml, if you want. I'd certainly love to see it. http://www.vim.org/lang.html would be where to start. I think you could do the same thing with emacs, if you were so inclined. ethan mindlace fremen Zopatista Community Liason
participants (7)
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Brad Moulton -
Eric L. Walstad -
ethan mindlace fremen -
jan＠haul.de -
Jeff Peterson -
Oleg Broytmann -
Paul Everitt