[The other] Jonathan writes: """Why don't you run two separate zope instances, one for production and one for development, and set up the apache rewrite rules so that www points to the production instance and dev points to the development instance?""" It is my impression that moving a Data.fs file from one Zope instance to another is often unreliable. Once the development and production Zope instances differ, and by definition they will, there could be a real problem getting the development Data.fs to open in the production instance.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark, Jonathan (Integic)" <jonathan.mark@integic-hc.com> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: [Zope] Limiting access to a Zope Site
[The other] Jonathan writes:
"""Why don't you run two separate zope instances, one for production and one for development, and set up the apache rewrite rules so that www points to the production instance and dev points to the development instance?"""
It is my impression that moving a Data.fs file from one Zope instance to another is often unreliable. Once the development and production Zope instances differ, and by definition they will, there could be a real problem getting the development Data.fs to open in the production instance.
There should be no problems copying/moving a Data.fs file from one zope instance to another, especially if both instances are running the same version of Zope! Jonathan [the other]
There should be no problems copying/moving a Data.fs file from one zope instance to another, especially if both instances are running the same version of Zope! Technically no but it is really strange and I believe bad (if not impossible) way to distribute application among dev, test, production environments...
For me there should of course be another developement Zope instance (and test instance and more), but application should be moved between instances by 'copying' changed Products or exporting changed files/folders from ZODB (.zexp files), or something like that. I'm not sure how it is in Plone but I don't believe in moving data.fs :) -- Maciej Wisniowski
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2 Feb 2007, at 21:06, Maciej Wisniowski wrote:
There should be no problems copying/moving a Data.fs file from one zope instance to another, especially if both instances are running the same version of Zope! Technically no but it is really strange and I believe bad (if not impossible) way to distribute application among dev, test, production environments...
For me there should of course be another developement Zope instance (and test instance and more), but application should be moved between instances by 'copying' changed Products or exporting changed files/ folders from ZODB (.zexp files), or something like that.
I'm not sure how it is in Plone but I don't believe in moving data.fs :)
If anyone likes or believes in moving a database isn't really the question here. The question was simply "is it possible without any problems", and the answer is yet. Why you would want to do it is a totally different question. "Should not be moved" states an opinion and not a fact. And whether the site uses Plone or not does not make one bit of a difference. jens -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFxFGERAx5nvEhZLIRAicIAJ94PiQIlInb2XxYvrPDZkk4ZB2KdwCfbunL Y1C+vkZisgZ5zA9nOi4T9ws= =uiNm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--On 2. Februar 2007 21:06:29 +0100 Maciej Wisniowski <maciej.wisniowski@coig.katowice.pl> wrote:
I'm not sure how it is in Plone but I don't believe in moving data.fs :)
(Un)fortunately the age of inquisition is over and you must somehow live with your misbelief :-) -aj
I'm not sure how it is in Plone but I don't believe in moving data.fs :)
(Un)fortunately the age of inquisition is over and you must somehow live with your misbelief :-) But this sentence was about application lifecycle... I meant that I don't believe that it is typical to distribute new version of application between Zope instances by copying data.fs. Is this misbelief?
In general OP asked about securing Zope sites. One way is to create proper environment with few Zope instances e.g. developement, test, production and more if someone needs (for example I have internal and external test instances). To move application between these environments I'm using copying (via SVN) zope products and exported .zexp files. -- Maciej Wisniowski
--On 3. Februar 2007 14:41:30 +0100 Maciej Wisniowski <maciej.wisniowski@coig.katowice.pl> wrote:
In general OP asked about securing Zope sites. One way is to create proper environment with few Zope instances e.g. development, test, production and more if someone needs (for example I have internal and external test instances). To move application between these environments I'm using copying (via SVN) zope products and exported .zexp files.
So where is your *real* problem? Export/import works fine, we have tools like ZSyncer, we have ZEO...something you're missing? -aj
So where is your *real* problem? Export/import works fine, we have tools like ZSyncer, we have ZEO...something you're missing? It is not my problem. I just pointed that copying data.fs between instances is not only and not preferrable way to distribute application versions among zope instances.
-- Maciej Wisniowski
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 3 Feb 2007, at 15:22, Maciej Wisniowski wrote:
So where is your *real* problem? Export/import works fine, we have tools like ZSyncer, we have ZEO...something you're missing? It is not my problem. I just pointed that copying data.fs between instances is not only and not preferrable way to distribute application versions among zope instances.
You're still expressing an opinion about what's "preferrable" as a statement of fact. What's preferrable and workable is not set in stone. People will do what works for them. Matter of fact, there is no "preferred" or "recommended" way to "distrubute applications" at all, really. jens -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFxJ1ZRAx5nvEhZLIRApktAJ95HDykTfNLQyMyoY/REuz8+BFOfQCfSpjn qWGvIc6VTFsVGu5PcE32Z/s= =GPRj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At Saturday 3/2/2007 11:34, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 3 Feb 2007, at 15:22, Maciej Wisniowski wrote:
So where is your *real* problem? Export/import works fine, we have tools like ZSyncer, we have ZEO...something you're missing? It is not my problem. I just pointed that copying data.fs between instances is not only and not preferrable way to distribute application versions among zope instances.
You're still expressing an opinion about what's "preferrable" as a statement of fact. What's preferrable and workable is not set in stone. People will do what works for them. Matter of fact, there is no "preferred" or "recommended" way to "distrubute applications" at all, really.
FWIW, I use two databases, one contains the application and the other (mounted as a folder) contains all the user-created objects. This way I just copy the "new" database over the "old" one, keeping the user objects intact. This works fine for our use case. -- Gabriel Genellina Softlab SRL __________________________________________________ Pregunt�. Respond�. Descubr�. Todo lo que quer�as saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est� en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). �Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
Maciej Wisniowski wrote at 2007-2-3 15:22 +0100:
So where is your *real* problem? Export/import works fine, we have tools like ZSyncer, we have ZEO...something you're missing? It is not my problem. I just pointed that copying data.fs between instances is not only and not preferrable way to distribute application versions among zope instances.
In my view, you have been right to warn against copying "Data.fs" to synchronize between development and production installations. In allmost all cases (whenever the production instance gathers some data from its users), this will lead to desaster (through data loss). While there might be cases where "Data.fs" can be copied for this purpose, it is good to point out that this should not be the general approach. If you had not warned, I would have done... -- Dieter
--On 4. Februar 2007 19:20:19 +0100 Dieter Maurer <dieter@handshake.de> wrote:
Maciej Wisniowski wrote at 2007-2-3 15:22 +0100:
So where is your *real* problem? Export/import works fine, we have tools like ZSyncer, we have ZEO...something you're missing? It is not my problem. I just pointed that copying data.fs between instances is not only and not preferrable way to distribute application versions among zope instances.
In my view, you have been right to warn against copying "Data.fs" to synchronize between development and production installations.
Copying the Data.fs is reasonable solution for some situation when you want to a complete site from a *staging* area to a production site. Otherwise you depend on tools like ZSyncer or toys like CMFStaging depending on your setup and deployment policies.
In allmost all cases (whenever the production instance gathers some data from its users), this will lead to desaster (through data loss).
Only a numpty would do that :-) Andreas
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2 Feb 2007, at 19:19, Mark, Jonathan (Integic) wrote:
It is my impression that moving a Data.fs file from one Zope instance to another is often unreliable. Once the development and production Zope instances differ, and by definition they will, there could be a real problem getting the development Data.fs to open in the production instance.
That's not right. If the software you run on both sites is identical there will never be a problem moving databases back and forth. jens -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFw4V+RAx5nvEhZLIRAvcSAJ94Sl9PAsojUrpFZlmLa+dWk5EGFQCbBlJ2 Ybz7+QIcJM3Vch5dxpkaKto= =5cTj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--On 2. Februar 2007 19:39:58 +0100 Jens Vagelpohl <jens@dataflake.org> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2 Feb 2007, at 19:19, Mark, Jonathan (Integic) wrote:
It is my impression that moving a Data.fs file from one Zope instance to another is often unreliable. Once the development and production Zope instances differ, and by definition they will, there could be a real problem getting the development Data.fs to open in the production instance.
That's not right. If the software you run on both sites is identical there will never be a problem moving databases back and forth.
That's also true with moving a Data.fs between different operating systems like Windows or Linux (have you tried that with other databases systems? :-)) -aj
participants (7)
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Andreas Jung -
Dieter Maurer -
Gabriel Genellina -
Jens Vagelpohl -
Jonathan -
Maciej Wisniowski -
Mark, Jonathan (Integic)