Hi Steve, I understand this well enough, but I have seen in two different scenarios that this fundamentally does not work. A transaction system we built has a system that is beyond my understanding and responsibility. The technicians assured me that they tried to POST data to a form from their server to our zope. It for some reason didnt work. (This is work previous to my time in the company) In my own test with Shockwave, using a POST method, the form does not process. Using a GET with a query string of course, DOES trigger zope properly. But perhaps its my logic gating in the form? Obsserve in ZOPE only: Name :index_html <dtml-if "REQUEST.has_key('submit')"> do something </dtml-if> <form method=POST> <input type=Submit name=submit> </form> Easy enough, yes? Now take something non-zope and try to post the submit. The 'do something' never occurs and nothing suggests that there was an error. Simply a zero-byte response. Does this explain my problem better? Thanks for your help, Paul Zwarts -----Original Message----- From: Steve Spicklemire [mailto:steve@spvi.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:30 AM To: Paul Zwarts Cc: Zope Subject: Re: [Zope] POST to zope Hi Paul, Hmm.. you have a form that uses 'method="POST"'? POST/GET are just different ways of encoding variables that get sent with a REQUEST to Zope. GET encodes the variables as part of the URL, POST sends them after all the headers are finished. Zope handles the distinction by parsing the variables (however they were sent) and stores them in the REQUEST object, which can then be interrogated by your methods. does that help? -steve Paul Zwarts wrote:

Can someone suggest a document somewhere that outlines Zope mechanism for POST and GET? I'm trying to make POSTs to Zope from elsewhere without any ideas of how to go about it.

Thanks, Paul Zwarts

_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

Great Steve, Thanks for the wonderfull suggestions. I'm now resinspired to check this out. The <dtml-if> was only an example of a form in Zope. We will check into your hypothetical question regarding Shockwave's awareness. Thanks for your help, Paul Zwarts -----Original Message----- From: Steve Spicklemire [mailto:steve@spvi.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 12:00 PM To: Paul Zwarts Cc: Zope Subject: Re: [Zope] POST to zope Hi Paul, Well *thats* a horse of a different color! Seriously, I know from painful experience that shockwave/flash on Windows is broken as far as XML post is concerned (I've pasted my bug report to Macromedia at the end of this message) but it doesn't sound like this is your problem. For issues like this I would recommend webdebug (http://www.cyberclip.com/webdebug/download.html) or Shane's excellent TCPWatch (http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/tcpwatch) The ZMI is full of 'POSTS' so it's pretty clear that POST works! I'm a little suspicious of your "if": <dtml-if "REQUEST.has_key('submit')"> do something </dtml-if> How do you know that shockwave is sending a form element with name="submit"? -steve Here is my post to Macromedia on the subject: ======================= Your Name: Steve Spicklemire Your E-Mail:steve@spvi.com ======================= Bug Description ======================= Summary: XMLObject.sendAndLoad really does "GET" on Windows Steps to Reproduce: 1. in ActionScript create an XML object then sendAndLoad to an URL 2. Watch the TCP/IP protocol with a protocol sniffing program or proxy. Expected Results: According to the documentation sendAndLoad should perform a 'post' operation. The Mac version of Flash player does this correctly. Here is a tcpdump example: tcpdump -X host tce and dst port 9080 06:18:26.689654 10.0.0.15.49784 > hs243.spvi.com.9080: P 3779844854:3779845148(294) ack 3107675499 win 32768 (DF) 0x0000 4500 014e 240a 4000 ff06 bf19 0a00 000f E..N$.@......... 0x0010 4084 4cf3 c278 2378 e14b daf6 b93b 5d6b @.L..x#x.K...;]k 0x0020 5018 8000 5bba 0000 504f 5354 202f 6d65 P...[...POST./me 0x0030 6469 614d 6173 7465 722f 696e 6465 785f diaMaster/index_ 0x0040 786d 6c20 4854 5450 2f31 2e30 0d0a 4163 xml.HTTP/1.0..Ac 0x0050 6365 ce Actual Results: On windows sendAndLoad is performing a "GET" rather than a "POST": tcpdump -X host tce and dst port 9080 06:21:38.202937 vh10-12.spvi.com.1045 > hs243.spvi.com.9080: P 0:252(252) ack 1 win 8760 (DF) 0x0000 4500 0124 3301 4000 8006 2f50 0a00 000c E..$3.@.../P.... 0x0010 4084 4cf3 0415 2378 002c 6362 b582 5380 @.L...#x.,cb..S. 0x0020 5018 2238 3ba6 0000 4745 5420 2f6d 6564 P."8;...GET./med 0x0030 6961 4d61 7374 6572 2f69 6e64 6578 5f78 iaMaster/index_x 0x0040 6d6c 2048 5454 502f 312e 310d 0a43 6f6e ml.HTTP/1.1..Con 0x0050 7465 te ======================= Platform: Power Macintosh___X_____ Windows 95/98___X____ Windows NT________ Windows 2000________ Windows ME________ ======================= Browser Information: ======================= Browser: Any Browser Version: ======================= System Information: ======================= Hardware: For MacOS B&W 400Mhz, For Windows 800Mhz HP OS Version: MacOS 9.1, Win98 RAM: Mac: 384M, Win 128M ======================= Paul Zwarts wrote:

Hi Steve,

I understand this well enough, but I have seen in two different scenarios that this fundamentally does not work.

A transaction system we built has a system that is beyond my understanding and responsibility. The technicians assured me that they tried to POST

data

to a form from their server to our zope. It for some reason didnt work. (This is work previous to my time in the company)

In my own test with Shockwave, using a POST method, the form does not process. Using a GET with a query string of course, DOES trigger zope properly. But perhaps its my logic gating in the form?

Obsserve in ZOPE only: Name :index_html

<dtml-if "REQUEST.has_key('submit')"> do something </dtml-if>

<form method=POST> <input type=Submit name=submit> </form>

Easy enough, yes? Now take something non-zope and try to post the submit. The 'do something' never occurs and nothing suggests that there was an error. Simply a zero-byte response.

Does this explain my problem better?

Thanks for your help, Paul Zwarts

-----Original Message----- From: Steve Spicklemire [mailto:steve@spvi.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:30 AM To: Paul Zwarts Cc: Zope Subject: Re: [Zope] POST to zope

Hi Paul,

Hmm.. you have a form that uses 'method="POST"'? POST/GET are just different ways of encoding variables that get sent with a REQUEST to Zope. GET encodes the variables as part of the URL, POST sends them after all the headers are finished. Zope handles the distinction by parsing the variables (however they were sent) and stores them in the REQUEST object, which can then be interrogated by your methods.

does that help? -steve

Paul Zwarts wrote:

...

Can someone suggest a document somewhere that outlines Zope mechanism

for

...

POST and GET? I'm trying to make POSTs to Zope from elsewhere without any ideas of how to go about it.

Thanks, Paul Zwarts

_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

Thomas, ROTFLOL, My site already is littered with too many of those. I'm always amused by my higher-ups saying 'Its a great site but I would take out all of that strange stuff at the bottom, it doesnt make sense'. Then you explain that its jyust a debug tool and you show them the magic button in your interface that turns it off.... But, REQUEST.form and REQUEST dont include header information except for the type of header in REQUEST. I have the feeling that this is something to do with the header and its originator. But, I'm no expert in these things, so I paste together everything people mention in this. Cheers, Paz a.k.a Paul Zwarts -----Original Message----- From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Thomas B. Passin Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 5:41 PM To: Zope Subject: Re: [Zope] POST to zope [Paul Zwarts]

Great Steve, Thanks for the wonderfull suggestions. I'm now resinspired to check this out.

The <dtml-if> was only an example of a form in Zope. We will check into your hypothetical question regarding Shockwave's awareness.

You definitely want to find out what Zope is receiving in the form. That's if Zope ever gets the form. In the NS problem I mentioned, Zope doesn't respond to the form until you click on the NS title bar, but when it gets it everything is normal after that. If you are getting the POSTed form at all, the first thing to do is to look at it: <dtml-var "REQUEST.form"> Then you will know if you are getting what you expected. Cheers, Tom P _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

* Thomas B. Passin <tpassin@mitretek.org> [010711 18:06]:

I expect you're right. I already tried using netcat at Troy Farrell's suggestion, and you can get it to show the headers, but I didn't get the required enlightenment yet. Worth trying on your problem, though. There's a version for Windows somewhere.

like this (on 'nix - probably the same on NT): $ nc -v -l -p 9999 (listens on port 9999) then just send your POST at port 9999 of your local machine. seb

* Oleg Broytmann <phd@phd.fep.ru> [010712 09:51]: <snip nc example>

Once a colleague asked me how to peep what headers a browser sends to a server. I suggested to write a minimal server that would store a request to a file. The results in pure Python:

http://phd.pp.ru/Software/Python/socket-servers/get_request/ Faster mirror: http://www.crosswinds.net/~phd2/Software/Python/socket-servers/get_request/

Nice :-) While we're on the subject, you could also use Shane's tcpwatch http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/tcpwatch Or use one of several widely available sniffer; on linux, tcpdump is the most common. I really like ngrep too. seb

Yes, it's easy in Python, I've done that too. Tom P [Oleg Broytmann]

On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, seb bacon wrote:

...

* Thomas B. Passin <tpassin@mitretek.org> [010711 18:06]:

...

I expect you're right. I already tried using netcat at Troy Farrell's suggestion, and you can get it to show the headers, but I didn't get the required enlightenment yet. Worth trying on your problem, though. There's a version for Windows somewhere.

like this (on 'nix - probably the same on NT):

$ nc -v -l -p 9999

(listens on port 9999)

then just send your POST at port 9999 of your local machine.

Once a colleague asked me how to peep what headers a browser sends to a server. I suggested to write a minimal server that would store a request to a file. The results in pure Python:

http://phd.pp.ru/Software/Python/socket-servers/get_request/ Faster mirror:

http://www.crosswinds.net/~phd2/Software/Python/socket-servers/get_request/

* Paul Zwarts <paz@oratrix.com> [010711 10:43]: <snip example>

Easy enough, yes? Now take something non-zope and try to post the submit. The 'do something' never occurs and nothing suggests that there was an error. Simply a zero-byte response.

Logically, there is no difference between POSTs from 'outside' or 'inside' Zope. They are all coming from a browser, not from zope, even if they were originally rendered by zope. Much more likely is that the people who are trying to POST to zope are using a broken POST form. For example, if they are trying to send files, it must be enctype="multipart/form-data". Possibly, they are using something other than a browser to do the post, such as a broken ASP library? I'd examine the output of their POST request in detail, since I think it is probably the culprit. seb

Does this explain my problem better?

Thanks for your help, Paul Zwarts

-----Original Message----- From: Steve Spicklemire [mailto:steve@spvi.com]

Hi Paul,

Hmm.. you have a form that uses 'method="POST"'? POST/GET are just different ways of encoding variables that get sent with a REQUEST to Zope. GET encodes the variables as part of the URL, POST sends them after all the headers are finished. Zope handles the distinction by parsing the variables (however they were sent) and stores them in the REQUEST object, which can then be interrogated by your methods.

does that help? -steve

Paul Zwarts wrote:

...

Can someone suggest a document somewhere that outlines Zope mechanism for POST and GET? I'm trying to make POSTs to Zope from elsewhere without any ideas of how to go about it.

Thanks, Paul Zwarts