Dear Zope Users Apologies if this is not the right forum to raise these questions. I am helping a charity decide on an Open Source / Open Standards CMS and also a framework and supporting tools to help them develop their web based applications faster. I would very much appreciate your views on the following: - What is your view on Python versus Java. I am hearing that Python may be more productive than Java in building web based apps. - Whilst Zope is open source, to what extent is it based on Open standards, If we select Zope/Plone/Python is there a danger of getting locked in to something that is proprietary. - Are you aware of any comparisons done on Zope CMF/Plone versus other CMSs (such as Open CMS) that we could have access to ? Any help most appreciated. -- Shashin Shah
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 08:19:03PM +0100, Shashin Shah wrote:
Dear Zope Users
Apologies if this is not the right forum to raise these questions.
I am helping a charity decide on an Open Source / Open Standards CMS and also a framework and supporting tools to help them develop their web based applications faster.
I would very much appreciate your views on the following:
- What is your view on Python versus Java. I am hearing that Python may be more productive than Java in building web based apps.
I expect most people on this mailing list would agree. A quote from my favorite presentation from Pycon DC 2004: "Java sucks beyond all measure and comprehension" http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/1/presentation.pdf
- Whilst Zope is open source, to what extent is it based on Open standards, If we select Zope/Plone/Python is there a danger of getting locked in to something that is proprietary.
Zope is a unique beast. If you leverage one of its really nice features - writing simple classes that store your data in the ZODB - then there is a small danger; however, extracting the data is generally a matter of nearly trivial scripting, as long as you follow best practices and don't mix code into your content. CMF encourages this. Zope plays nicely with various RDBMs, so if you are really worried you could always go that route. ANother thing that may help with portability: write your core functionality without any Zope dependencies, or maybe just ZODB dependencies. Then write a layer of wrapper classes that adapt your app to work with Zope. This would help if you ever decide to migrate to another python web framework, or Zope 3. BTW, "standards" such as J2EE don't necessarily buy you as much portability as you would hope. I've seen a small group of java developers wrestle with porting an app from BEA to Jboss. It was planned to take a week or two, and it took more like three months. Given that we saved something like $200,000 in licensing costs, that was deemed worthwhile. But still, what a pain. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com
My opinion: If you want to allow full control of the application platform, Zope or Zope/CMF is the answer. If you want an OS CMS using 'popular standards' try PHP stuff. They have more time and developers doing content management, above all in LAMP. But the aspect that is rarely considered for newcomers to content management, is that there are more differences than similarities in needs at the moment you manage content. There is much more demands than meets the eye, than the possibilities of any OS CMS. You will definitely go for custom development, the sooner or later. And that's why, IMO, you should focus on the platform. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shashin Shah" <shashin@bkwsulon.demon.co.uk> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:19 PM Subject: [Zope] Request for Information
Dear Zope Users
Apologies if this is not the right forum to raise these questions.
I am helping a charity decide on an Open Source / Open Standards CMS and also a framework and supporting tools to help them develop their web based applications faster.
I would very much appreciate your views on the following:
- What is your view on Python versus Java. I am hearing that Python may be more productive than Java in building web based apps.
- Whilst Zope is open source, to what extent is it based on Open standards, If we select Zope/Plone/Python is there a danger of getting locked in to something that is proprietary.
Not that I know. Most of products for Zope are released under the GPL or ZPL licenses.
- Are you aware of any comparisons done on Zope CMF/Plone versus other CMSs (such as Open CMS) that we could have access to ?
Any help most appreciated.
I don't have the numbers but I did try and stressed many of the CMSs out there. My conclusion: If you want to allow full control of the application platform, Zope or Zope/CMF is the answer. If you want an OS CMS using 'popular standards', try PHP stuff. They have more time and developers doing content management, above all in LAMP. But the aspect that is rarely considered for newcomers to CM, is that there are more differences than similarities in needs, at the moment you enable content management features for a professional website. There is much more demands than meets the eye, and the possibilities of any OS CMS seem to fall short at some point. Believe me, you will definitely go for custom development, the sooner or later. And that's why, IMO, you should focus on the platform. In that sense Zope is the best beast for the job. Ausum
-- Shashin Shah
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participants (3)
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Ausum Studio -
Paul Winkler -
Shashin Shah