Virtual hosting w/out Apache for Zope newbies?
Hi, I went through the web and this list's archives, and am a bit lost as to what is the best way and/or simplest way to set up Zope to host several sites without having Apache in front. What are VHM, VHF, SiteObject, SiteAccess, etc? Thx much Fred.
[Frederic Faure wrote (ffaure@bigfoot.com) on 4/29/03 1:25 PM]
I went through the web and this list's archives, and am a bit lost as to what is the best way and/or simplest way to set up Zope to host several sites without having Apache in front. What are VHM, VHF, SiteObject, SiteAccess, etc?
VHM is Virtual Host Monster and is part of the SiteAccess Enhanced Product. its the best really. you'll also want to run zope behind apache if zope is exposed to the net. hth <--> george donnelly - http://www.zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :) Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion Yahoo, AIM: zettainet - MSN: zettainet@hotmail.com - ICQ: 51907738
[Frederic Faure wrote (ffaure@bigfoot.com) on 4/29/03 2:30 PM]
Why would I want to add Apache? Security? Load?
read this: http://www.zope.org/Members/anser/apache_zserver <--> george donnelly - http://www.zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :) Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion Yahoo, AIM: zettainet - MSN: zettainet@hotmail.com - ICQ: 51907738
george donnelly wrote:
[Frederic Faure wrote (ffaure@bigfoot.com) on 4/29/03 2:30 PM]
Why would I want to add Apache? Security? Load?
read this:
It sais "Versatile Apache is much better for serving legacy HTML/CGI content". Yes, if you want to mix in legacy HTML/CGI content, they you need to run Zope behind Apache. But the claim that you ALWAYS should run Zope behind Apache as soons as you are exposed to the Internet is not given any support by that document. In fact, the arguments for it is rather weak. This is the reasons I have found, so far. I listed them in my Apache+Zope howto at http://www.zope.org/Members/regebro/Zope_and_Apache/ : When should I run Zope behind Apache? * You need both Zope based sites and non-Zope based sites. * You are a nervous dude that don't trust that Zopes Zserver can handle when people send you weird and invalid http requests in hacking and denial of service attacks, or you don't trust the OpenSSL way of doing SSL and want to use Apaches SSL. * You want to have a cache of the finished pages to speed up access. * Your boss/customer requires you to use Apache and you don't want to argue with him/her. I'd be happy to add other cases to this list.
Lennart Regebro wrote:
It sais "Versatile Apache is much better for serving legacy HTML/CGI content".
Yes, if you want to mix in legacy HTML/CGI content, they you need to run Zope behind Apache. But the claim that you ALWAYS should run Zope behind Apache as soons as you are exposed to the Internet is not given any support by that document. In fact, the arguments for it is rather weak.
Weak? Hardly. ZServer should never be exposed to the Internet or any hostile network, its far far too fragile, and it doesn't have the resource shaping controls that are mandatory for reliable operation. no resource shaping: http://collector.zope.org/Zope/606 buggy cannonical host handling and poor contextual rendering: http://collector.zope.org/Zope/813 Both of which may be averted by protecting ZServer with Apache or any other proxy which provides the level of security requisite for hosting a site on the Internet. ZServer, alone on bare wire, is a disaster waiting to happen. Do not construe this as an argument for augmenting ZServer further, it isn't. If anything ZServer is too fat, and should be stripped down. -- Jamie Heilman http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/ "It's almost impossible to overestimate the unimportance of most things." -John Logue
Jamie Heilman wrote:
Lennart Regebro wrote:
But the claim that you ALWAYS should run Zope behind Apache as soons as you are exposed to the Internet is not given any support by that document. In fact, the arguments for it is rather weak.
Weak? Hardly.
Ok I see what you're saying now, the aforementioned document doesn't give a good argument for why somebody should use Apache to front ZServer... you weren't defending ZServer, my bad. Nevertheless, feel free to add to your document that ZServer should ALWAYS be protected by a robust and configurable HTTP proxy. Frankly I think Zope should come distributed with this plainly outlined in the documenation. I feel that saying "Zope comes with everything you need to get up and running including a built-in web server and search engine." is sort of a half-truth. Sure its a start, but you can't roll out a service with Zope alone and expect it to withstand a hostile network situation. -- Jamie Heilman http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/ "It's almost impossible to overestimate the unimportance of most things." -John Logue
On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 03:23:23PM -0700, Jamie Heilman wrote:
free to add to your document that ZServer should ALWAYS be protected by a robust and configurable HTTP proxy. Frankly I think Zope should come distributed with this plainly outlined in the documenation.
while we're on the subject... has anybody ever tried twisted.web as a proxy for zope? I see from browsing the docs that twisted implements both a proxy and a reverse proxy, and I recall the twisted developers saying at Pycon that twisted has been found quite robust in the field. -- Paul Winkler home: http://www.slinkp.com "Muppet Labs, where the future is made - today!"
Paul Winkler wrote:
developers saying at Pycon that twisted has been found quite robust in the field.
Try telling a good sysadmin that something is "quite robust" and watch their reaction... ...you may find out what it's like to be "qutie dead" ;-) *grinz* Chris
On Tuesday 29 April 2003 3:30 pm, Frederic Faure wrote:
At 10:25 29/04/2003 +0000, george donnelly wrote:
its the best really. you'll also want to run zope behind apache if zope is exposed to the net.
Why would I want to add Apache? Security? Load?
Both of those, plus manageability. Alot of problems go away if using Apache Squid or Pound. -- Toby Dickenson http://www.geminidataloggers.com/people/tdickenson
Frederic Faure wrote:
Hi,
I went through the web and this list's archives, and am a bit lost as to what is the best way and/or simplest way to set up Zope to host several sites without having Apache in front. What are VHM, VHF, SiteObject, SiteAccess, etc?
The easiest way is the virtual host monster.
At 15:38 29/04/2003 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:
The easiest way is the virtual host monster.
Thx but... is there a HOWTO for total newbies (ie. no assumptions about extra add-ons)? I found a couple of docs on www.zope.org, but I don't know if they still apply, and they make references to other tools. Thx Fred.
[Frederic Faure wrote (ffaure@bigfoot.com) on 4/29/03 1:44 PM]
The easiest way is the virtual host monster.
Thx but... is there a HOWTO for total newbies (ie. no assumptions about extra add-ons)? I found a couple of docs on www.zope.org, but I don't know if they still apply, and they make references to other tools.
install as you would a regular zope product http://www.zope.org/Members/sfm/SiteAccessEnhanced in the root of your zope, add a Virtual Host monster there are som docs in the vhm object instance. its really very easy. there is a little howto here as well: http://www.zettai.net/Members/krayc/HowToUseVHMForNewbie/view hth <--> george donnelly - http://www.zettai.net/ - "We Love Newbies" :) Zope Hosting - Dynamic Website Design - Search Engine Promotion Yahoo, AIM: zettainet - MSN: zettainet@hotmail.com - ICQ: 51907738
participants (7)
-
Chris Withers -
Frederic Faure -
george donnelly -
Jamie Heilman -
Lennart Regebro -
Paul Winkler -
Toby Dickenson