Hi Martijn - I work with MS tools and OS all day long. Believe me I know the way that those products are a house of cards. And thanks for posting about the debugger. I just kept hitting 's' and eventually I got: (Pdb) s

z2.py(441)?() -> import ZServer (Pdb) s NameError: 'Case mismatc...ope\\zserver)' z2.py(441)?() -> import ZServer (Pdb) s C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\exceptions.py(65)__init__() -> def __init__(self, *args): (Pdb) s C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\exceptions.py(66)__init__() -> self.args = args (Pdb) s --Return-- C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\exceptions.py(66)__init__()->None -> self.args = args (Pdb) s Traceback (innermost last): File "z2.py", line 441, in ? import ZServer NameError> C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\exceptions.py(68)__str__() -> def __str__(self): (Pdb) s C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\exceptions.py(69)__str__() -> if not self.args: (Pdb) s C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\exceptions.py(71)__str__() -> elif len(self.args) == 1: (Pdb) s C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\exceptions.py(72)__str__() -> return str(self.args[0]) (Pdb) s --Return-- C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\exceptions.py(72)__str__()->'Case mismatc...ope\\z server)' -> return str(self.args[0]) (Pdb) s : Case mismatch for module name ZServer (filename E:\zope\zserver)

E:\zope> This is what we were looking for... the case mismatch was a clue. I remembered that after installing zope on this machine the Zope dir was called ZOPE (uppercase) for some reason (I didn't request that). I innocently renamed it to zope with explorer. So I tried two things to fix it. First I renamed the existing zope dir to zopex and ran a fresh install into a new zope dir. After that I searched the registry for zope and found one line that had "E:\ZOPE\BIN\LIB\WIN32\PYTHON~1.EXE" which I switched to lowercase. Now Zope runs fine <g>. I don't know if both of these items were required but I'm reporting them to you just in case they are. I'm kind of surprised that case sensitivity enters in here, I know it's important in the unix realms, but didn't think it would carry over here. In any case it works now. Martijn, I am extremely grateful to you for your help. And I'm glad it was so simple in the end. Michael Simcich AccessTools -----Original Message----- From: Martijn Pieters [mailto:mj@digicool.com] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 1:17 AM To: Michael Simcich; zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] Fourth request for help - Win2K+Zope From: "Michael Simcich" <msimcich@accesstools.com>

This is a realatively clean install of Windows 2000. I guess I will try the python lists, but immediately... I have no idea about pyhthon, so... and no I don't have any VPN software running.

Okay, it was just a hunch, something that has proven to be a problem before.

By platform I wasn't referring to Win vs Linux, I intend to use Linux in the long run and am experimenting with it now. I just don't need it's learning curve at the same time I'm of dealing with Zope/Python's. I was referring to application development platforms. The group of tools I've been evaluating/working with include zope, php, asp, and cf. As far as I can tell, having had only minor hands on with zope, it's the most interesting fit for my needs. But if I can't get the thing to turn over... then it's not relevant.

I think this experience has shown me some of what it means to work with a product that's less mainstream than what I'm used to. I've pretty much worked with VB level tools. I guess I'm somewhat spoiled by the huge pool of experienced users with those products.

I have seen VB tools do pretty strange things. Not because the VB tools were wrong, just because the Windows platform is a unstable heap of interreleated DLLs that is build like a cardhouse. When a piece of software breaks, you cannot always tell where it goes wrong. You cannot even be sure that the software broke because of a bug, or because of Windows.

I still have a hard time believing that there isn't like... you know, something I can check? A setting? That the Zope community knows about. This is perhaps part of what was brought up in another thread running here, that perhaps in comparison with more widely used products like perl or php, Zope is in some ways a bit resource thin. This would almost have to be the case, it's just newer and has a smaller community behind it. I'm sure this will change. Since all of the languages are imperfect, at first they all have some dimly lit corners that need discovery and documentation.

I am not sure it is Zope in this case. Others have reported that Zope works on their Win2k install, without problems. There just isn't anything in Zope I can think of that might be causing this.

BTW, I dont' get anything like a python.exe Application Error, I just

get...

absolutely nothing. No errors, nothing.

Windows is never very forward with error reports. Right. Lets see what we can get out of Zope here: - Don't use start.bat. Use the command prompt instead. - First, edit z2.py. At line 216, just above the comments and a line that starts with swhome, insert: import pdb pdb.set_trace() - cd to the Zope directory. - type: bin\python.exe z2.py -D If everything goes according to plan, you'll be put into the Python Debugger. 's' steps to the next statement, 'n' steps over the next statement. Typing a variable name will print it. Here is the output if I run a few steps: --Return--

D:\Program Files\Python\Lib\pdb.py(868)set_trace()->None -> Pdb().set_trace() (Pdb) s z2.py(220)?() -> swhome=r'D:\Program Files\Zope' (Pdb) s z2.py(221)?() -> import sys (Pdb) swhome 'D:\\Program Files\\Zope' (Pdb)

This is on a Win98 machine, with Python itself installed as well. The pdb was imported from the Python path, instead of the Zope python path, but it should make no difference here. You might want to read the pdb manual: http://www.python.org/doc/lib/debugger-commands.html Stepping through, you will probably hit a point where things go wrong, i.e., Python exists without an error. But we can at least see if Python will run at all, and if so, how far you can get. Let us know what happens! -- Martijn Pieters | Software Engineer mailto:mj@digicool.com | Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com/ | Creators of Zope http://www.zope.org/ | The Open Source Web Application Server ---------------------------------------------

On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Martijn Pieters wrote:

I am glad that this is solved. I ponder at the case-sensitivity though. Maybe Python doesn't detect the OS properly? I am not fully sure as to how Python decides when to ignore case, but it is clearly broken on your Win2k install. Also, the lack of error messages was very vexing and confusing.

This is discussed partially in Guido's essay on the Python Package mechanism. This is why you must specify the __all__ symbol in a package's __init__.py if you want it to behave well in a cross-platform situation. At least, that's my take on it. ;-) --Jeff --- Jeff K. Hoffman 704.849.0731 x108 Chief Technology Officer mailto:jeff@goingv.com Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/

We compile Zope for Win32 on NT with MS's compiler. This binary works on 95/98 and all various flavors of NT. If it does not work on 2K, then I suspect, although obviously I have no proof, that it's a 2Kism. Your choice of platform is, of course, your choice. We are probably the wrong audience to ask what kind of platform you should switch to. I agree that we should ensure that Zope runs on 2K, but without any customers that want/need this, it will not happen unless someone can pinpoint with some accuracy how exactly it fails on 2K. You are correct in your earlier post that this is a list of peer assistance. Luke Tymowski responded on Tuesday to you post that it works on 2K as a service for him:

It works.

I just installed Zope on a Toshiba laptop running W2K Pro, and it runs properly as a service.

It's a fresh install of W2K. Python installed correctly. Zope installed correctly. Zope runs correctly on either port 8080 or port 80.

Also on Tuesday Toby Dickenson confirmed Luke's report:

I have been running several python services, including Zope 2.1.(3,4), on a late beta of windows 2000. So far I've not encountered any problems beyond what I would expect with NT4.

Taking these two points and drawing a line seems to indicate that Zope does run on 2K. Have you considered that the problem is not Zope at all, but perhaps some sort of conflict with your existing setup or some other parameter? -Michel Michael Simcich wrote:

This is a realatively clean install of Windows 2000. I guess I will try the python lists, but immediately... I have no idea about pyhthon, so... and no I don't have any VPN software running.

By platform I wasn't referring to Win vs Linux, I intend to use Linux in the long run and am experimenting with it now. I just don't need it's learning curve at the same time I'm of dealing with Zope/Python's. I was referring to application development platforms. The group of tools I've been evaluating/working with include zope, php, asp, and cf. As far as I can tell, having had only minor hands on with zope, it's the most interesting fit for my needs. But if I can't get the thing to turn over... then it's not relevant.

I think this experience has shown me some of what it means to work with a product that's less mainstream than what I'm used to. I've pretty much worked with VB level tools. I guess I'm somewhat spoiled by the huge pool of experienced users with those products.

I still have a hard time believing that there isn't like... you know, something I can check? A setting? That the Zope community knows about. This is perhaps part of what was brought up in another thread running here, that perhaps in comparison with more widely used products like perl or php, Zope is in some ways a bit resource thin. This would almost have to be the case, it's just newer and has a smaller community behind it. I'm sure this will change. Since all of the languages are imperfect, at first they all have some dimly lit corners that need discovery and documentation.

BTW, I dont' get anything like a python.exe Application Error, I just get... absolutely nothing. No errors, nothing.

Michael Simcich AccessTools

-----Original Message----- From: Martijn Pieters [mailto:mj@digicool.com] Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 10:52 PM To: 'Michael Simcich'; zope@zope.org Subject: RE: [Zope] Fourth request for help - Win2K+Zope

From: Michael Simcich [mailto:msimcich@accesstools.com]

...

I wonder what it takes to get some assistance with this issue? I have to assume that none of my peer Zope users out there knows what to do with my problem (Zope doesn't run under Windows 2000 as detailed in previous posts). So what do you all recommend that I try next? As far as I know this list is about it for peer level support so is my only alternative to see if DC is willing to enter into the smallest support contract ever seen?

Sorry for the repetitive posts, but I need to get this thing working. Unless someone can point me to a better platform <g>. I am just really disappointed and frustrated with the lack of assistance and... a working copy of Zope.

Heh, I wouldn't start about this platform thingy if I were you =)

I don't know anything about Win2k, but I did see something on the DC support list about certain types of VPN software interfering. Both PGPNet and Connect for Windows, caused a similar problem (python.exe Application Error), which disappeared after removing them.

Maybe some software component on your server is interfering with Python? Try a clean, minimal install of Win2k.

Other than that, you could try the python mailinglist, as it doesn't sound like something particular to Zope. And ActiveState (http://www.activestate.com/) supports python on Win32, and Mark Hammond works there now. Maybe they can help as well (for a fee I imagine).

-- Martijn Pieters, Software Engineer | Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com | Creators of Zope http://www.zope.org | mailto:mj@digicool.com ICQ: 4532236 | PGP: http://wwwkeys.nl.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xA8A32149 -------------------------------------------

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