Hi. Does anybody know where I can found information about the performance of Zope as a web server? I mean, information like: number of documents that Zope can store and serve, max. access rate, max. users rate, hardware requirements, etc. Thank you in advance.
This is the latest, it will give you some of those numbers. http://zopeedge.com/benchmarks As for how many items in the ZODB? Most would just say it is size not number of items. Most people try to keep their ZODB below 2GB due to OS restrictions, but some have gone beyond. Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes). BZ
Hi.
Does anybody know where I can found information about the performance of Zope as a web server? I mean, information like: number of documents that Zope can store and serve, max. access rate, max. users rate, hardware requirements, etc.
Thank you in advance.
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Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere. jens
Probably just rumors floating around. It would be REALLY great if CBS New York could be a Zope case study. REALLY! :) BZ
Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere.
jens
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since i am not the one who decides about marketing materials and i am really bad at writing marketing fluff i would keep it to the tech aspects only. jens On Monday, Mar 31, 2003, at 09:00 US/Eastern, BZ wrote:
Probably just rumors floating around.
It would be REALLY great if CBS New York could be a Zope case study.
REALLY! :)
BZ
Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere.
jens
First of all thank you a lot for you attention. I'm quite new to Zope so it is still difficoult to understand how it will work when the system will be deployed. We need to size the system for (all values are the absolute maximumwe expect) 10.000 authenticated users, 10.000 documents (5000 pdf with 200 Kb average size, and 500 html), 1000 hits/minute. Do you think we can use Zope alone (no ZEO, no Apache)? Does the server's hardware need to carry anything special? Thank you.
Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere.
jens
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I would use ExtFile for the PDFs, Apache in front and ZEO for failure. 1 GHz + Pentiums, 1 GB of RAM (Zope/Python love RAM,) SCSI drives in RAID. BZ
First of all thank you a lot for you attention. I'm quite new to Zope so it is still difficoult to understand how it will work when the system will be deployed. We need to size the system for (all values are the absolute maximumwe expect) 10.000 authenticated users, 10.000 documents (5000 pdf with 200 Kb average size, and 500 html), 1000 hits/minute. Do you think we can use Zope alone (no ZEO, no Apache)? Does the server's hardware need to carry anything special? Thank you.
Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere.
jens
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...forgive me if I bother you. what would Apache do better if I have no files served outside of Zope? I thought that I'd need apache only if I have files to serve that are not "passing" through Zope.Am I wrong? Fabio For At 17:12 31-03-03 Monday, you wrote:
I would use ExtFile for the PDFs, Apache in front and ZEO for failure.
1 GHz + Pentiums, 1 GB of RAM (Zope/Python love RAM,) SCSI drives in RAID.
BZ
First of all thank you a lot for you attention. I'm quite new to Zope so it is still difficoult to understand how it will work when the system will be deployed. We need to size the system for (all values are the absolute maximumwe expect) 10.000 authenticated users, 10.000 documents (5000 pdf with 200 Kb average size, and 500 html), 1000 hits/minute. Do you think we can use Zope alone (no ZEO, no Apache)? Does the server's hardware need to carry anything special? Thank you.
Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere.
jens
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I meant that Apache could get you some caching and or serving up very static things like PDFs or images. I personally put all of my stuff in the ZODB and it is about 500MB. I serve up around 30 hits a minute which is really nothing. I use Zope RAM caching for more dynamic stuff (like side navigation etc). There is a lot of headroom in my server for more growth.. I would probably not have to move off of this server till 300-500 hits a minute. BZ
...forgive me if I bother you. what would Apache do better if I have no files served outside of Zope? I thought that I'd need apache only if I have files to serve that are not "passing" through Zope.Am I wrong? Fabio
For At 17:12 31-03-03 Monday, you wrote:
I would use ExtFile for the PDFs, Apache in front and ZEO for failure.
1 GHz + Pentiums, 1 GB of RAM (Zope/Python love RAM,) SCSI drives in RAID.
BZ
First of all thank you a lot for you attention. I'm quite new to Zope so it is still difficoult to understand how it will work when the system will be deployed. We need to size the system for (all values are the absolute maximumwe expect) 10.000 authenticated users, 10.000 documents (5000 pdf with 200 Kb average size, and 500 html), 1000 hits/minute. Do you think we can use Zope alone (no ZEO, no Apache)? Does the server's hardware need to carry anything special? Thank you.
Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere.
jens
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On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 05:09:53PM +0200, Fabio Rolando wrote:
...forgive me if I bother you. what would Apache do better if I have no files served outside of Zope? I thought that I'd need apache only if I have files to serve that are not "passing" through Zope.Am I wrong?
apache or squid in front of zope gives you some additional protection against DOS attacks and the like. Zserver alone might not be robust enough for the level of traffic you anticipate. another thing to note when specc'ing hardware: SMP does not help you with zope (or with python in general). Don't waste your money on multiple CPUs - *unless* your OS gives you the ability to bind a process to a particular CPU. In that case, you can run ZEO (on the same machine or another) and run one zope process per CPU. I'd also consider using DirectoryStorage. You're looking at starting with 1 GB of data at least, and it gets a bit awkward to do backups of a single GB-sized file. --PW
Fabio
For At 17:12 31-03-03 Monday, you wrote:
I would use ExtFile for the PDFs, Apache in front and ZEO for failure.
1 GHz + Pentiums, 1 GB of RAM (Zope/Python love RAM,) SCSI drives in RAID.
BZ
First of all thank you a lot for you attention. I'm quite new to Zope so it is still difficoult to understand how it will work when the system will be deployed. We need to size the system for (all values are the absolute maximumwe expect) 10.000 authenticated users, 10.000 documents (5000 pdf with 200 Kb average size, and 500 html), 1000 hits/minute. Do you think we can use Zope alone (no ZEO, no Apache)? Does the server's hardware need to carry anything special? Thank you.
Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere.
jens
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Hi Fabio, You can expect Zope on a typical commodity Intel box under Linux to serve between 15 - 50 requests per second, depending on how processor-intensive the page rendering is. So back-of-the-napkin calculation comes out that to support 16 requests per second (1000 request/min distributed evenly over the minute), depending on how well-written your application is, you may be able to get away with using one Zope app server. Of course, this is a lot to assume. The best way to do capacity planning like this is to start with the question "how long is the longest acceptable time that a request to my application should take?" Then estimate what "peak load" will be. An example of "peak load": "60 simultaneous requests, half hitting the home page, half rendering a news item". Then work towards testing your application under this load, figuring out what its performance characteristics are. If requests to the site under this load meet your "longest acceptable time" requirements, you're done. If they don't, you'll either need to make your application faster, add hardware, or change your configuration. In any case, you'll probably want to use a cache server of some kind (Apache via mod_proxy or Squid) to help serve some of that content, at least the static content which is highly-cacheable. This provides the "biggest bang for the buck" against changing your application or adding appservers (it's typically cheaper and more effective if you can get away with it). For sites where almost all page views need to be personalized (via authentication or other conditional page rendering), however, it's difficult to get any return from caching save for images and whatnot. One fast way to do some load testing before going in to production is to use Apache's "ab" tool to get an idea of how fast various pages render. Another is to use a tool named OpenSTA to model a more complicated set of system loads. - C On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 09:57, Fabio Rolando wrote:
First of all thank you a lot for you attention. I'm quite new to Zope so it is still difficoult to understand how it will work when the system will be deployed. We need to size the system for (all values are the absolute maximumwe expect) 10.000 authenticated users, 10.000 documents (5000 pdf with 200 Kb average size, and 500 html), 1000 hits/minute. Do you think we can use Zope alone (no ZEO, no Apache)? Does the server's hardware need to carry anything special? Thank you.
Hardware is up to you and what you need. You can run it on almost anything, but if you are going to run http://www.cbsnewyork.com you will need more (I think I read that all the sites combined in that Zope installation run on 48 dual proc linux boxes).
that's way off (it's less). maybe i'll ask the boss-man today to see if i am allowed to publish some real figures in a document somewhere.
jens
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On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 06:57, Fabio Rolando wrote:
First of all thank you a lot for you attention. I'm quite new to Zope so it is still difficoult to understand how it will work when the system will be deployed. We need to size the system for (all values are the absolute maximumwe expect) 10.000 authenticated users, 10.000 documents (5000 pdf with 200 Kb average size, and 500 html), 1000 hits/minute. Do you think we can use Zope alone (no ZEO, no Apache)?
Sure, you can run Zope on a bare wire... but why would you specify such a thing at the outset? In a decent-sized system, you'll want to let different tools handle the tasks that they are designed to do well and leave the secondary features alone. Zope's web server is good, but it will probably never be maintained as aggressively as Apache. I would strongly recommend running Apache in front of any non-trivial Zope app that is connected to the Internet. Apache is really good at what *it* provides, and while there is *some* overlap with Zope, they are mostly different tools. And if those 5000 PDF's are *static* files, you should consider serving them directly from Apache anyway. There's almost no good reason to serve discrete static content out of Zope. HTH, Dylan
Fabio Rolando wrote at 2003-3-31 16:57 +0200:
First of all thank you a lot for you attention. I'm quite new to Zope so it is still difficoult to understand how it will work when the system will be deployed. We need to size the system for (all values are the absolute maximumwe expect) 10.000 authenticated users, 10.000 documents (5000 pdf with 200 Kb average size, and 500 html), 1000 hits/minute. Do you think we can use Zope alone (no ZEO, no Apache)?
My Zope can handle about 20 hits per second (on a 1.4 GHz AMD). However, I doubt this will work for 200kB requests ;-). Think about caching the pages. Think about directly delivering static pages from a Web server in front without going through Zope. Dieter
participants (7)
-
BZ -
Chris McDonough -
Dieter Maurer -
Dylan Reinhardt -
Fabio Rolando -
Jens Vagelpohl -
Paul Winkler