Can anyone out there tell me why anyone would use a product whose tutorial won't even run. You guys are either INFINITELY more patient than I or you all have WAY too much time on your hands. I'm about 7 hours into this thing and we do finally have zope up and running but of course the tutorial doesn't work. Requires you to put in an ID then blows up and goes no further. What a piece of garbage!!!! (Does my frustration show??)
Norm, Calm down, take a deep breath, right that's better. The behaviour you see is again quite normal. The decision has been made that the superuser cannot own anything, apart from user objects and user folder type objects. So the first thing you need to do is to create another user that has management rights then use that user for all the tutorial work. This is mentioned in the docs somewhere, but it escapes me at the moment as to where that is. This should be your final major hurdle, and you'll be serving zope pages in no time ;) I would urge you to take a look at the upcoming Zope book, which is available from the front page of Zope.org. hth Phil phil.harris@zope.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm LaDuke" <nladuke@farmer.com> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 1:17 AM Subject: [Zope] Running Zope | Can anyone out there tell me why anyone would use a product whose tutorial won't | even run. You guys are either INFINITELY more patient than I or you all have | WAY too much time on your hands. I'm about 7 hours into this thing and we do | finally have zope up and running but of course the tutorial doesn't work. | Requires you to put in an ID then blows up and goes no further. What a piece | of garbage!!!! (Does my frustration show??) | | | _______________________________________________ | Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope | ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** | (Related lists - | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
I hope Norm LaDuke does take a breath and follow the advise others have given. But his post does in fact seem to be a common first-time experience. So I would like to suggest a sensible super-newbie-oriented adjustment to _all_ future Zope installations: At installation Zope system should create a default user called 'tutorial' or 'guest' or 'first-time' or something. Upon launching Zope the first time after installation, user 'tutorial' would immediately be logged in automatically and routed to the tutuorial istelf, where the first page advises him/her to create a personal user 'Id' and password for any further real-world use of Zope. This page should also include a form right there to do this. - Jason
----- Original Message ----- From: "Norm LaDuke" <nladuke@farmer.com> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 1:17 AM Subject: [Zope] Running Zope
| Can anyone out there tell me why anyone would use a product whose tutorial won't | even run. You guys are either INFINITELY more patient than I or you all have | WAY too much time on your hands. I'm about 7 hours into this thing and we do | finally have zope up and running but of course the tutorial doesn't work. | Requires you to put in an ID then blows up and goes no further. What a piece | of garbage!!!! (Does my frustration show??)
Phil Harris wrote:
The decision has been made that the superuser cannot own anything, apart from user objects and user folder type objects.
Maybe this should be painted in big bright red flashing letters on the Tutorial add form? How about actually writing some code in the tutorial to check when someone is logged in as Superuser and warn them? I've said it before, but this mail has prompted me to say it yet again... Is it really necessary to hamstring the superuser like this and confuse the hell out every new user while annoying the rest of us who have to log in as superuser, then restart our browsers ('cos there's no log-me-out link!) ? I notice there were some CVS checkins about renaming it to the 'emergency user'. Cool, does this mean you're going to be able to define a manager at install-time? Hmmm, if so, what is it that the emergency/super user can do that a normal manager can't? cheers, Chris (happy Monday morning to you all ;-)
I notice there were some CVS checkins about renaming it to the 'emergency user'. Cool, does this mean you're going to be able to define a manager at install-time?
Yes - the whole lame login-as-superuser-create-a-manager-and-relogin process will be gone in 2.3. At install time you'll create a first manager and just use that. A "superuser" will not even exist, unless and until you need it and explicitly create it.
Hmmm, if so, what is it that the emergency/super user can do that a normal manager can't?
He can un-screw permissions or users if you ever manage to get totally locked out of your site. Think of it as a user mounted in a box on the wall labeled "in case of emergency, break glass". In practice, few should ever have to break the glass. Brian Lloyd brian@digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com
Brian Lloyd wrote:
I notice there were some CVS checkins about renaming it to the 'emergency user'. Cool, does this mean you're going to be able to define a manager at install-time?
Yes - the whole lame login-as-superuser-create-a-manager-and-relogin process will be gone in 2.3. At install time you'll create a first manager and just use that.
Yay! As Max asked, any 2.3 timeframe? Python Scripts and no Super User alone make it _very_ enticing :-))
He can un-screw permissions or users if you ever manage to get totally locked out of your site. Think of it as a user mounted in a box on the wall labeled "in case of emergency, break glass".
How does this differ from a normal manager and how would you 'create a super user' as you descriebd in the bit I snipped? cheers, Chris
I notice there were some CVS checkins about renaming it to the 'emergency user'. Cool, does this mean you're going to be able to define a manager at install-time?
Yes - the whole lame login-as-superuser-create-a-manager-and-relogin process will be gone in 2.3. At install time you'll create a first manager and just use that.
Yay!
As Max asked, any 2.3 timeframe? Python Scripts and no Super User alone make it _very_ enticing :-))
I would reeeeeaaally like to see a beta by the end of Dec. - but don't quote me yet. Part of what I'm doing today is figuring what the resource situation looks like.
He can un-screw permissions or users if you ever manage to get totally locked out of your site. Think of it as a user mounted in a box on the wall labeled "in case of emergency, break glass".
How does this differ from a normal manager and how would you 'create a super user' as you descriebd in the bit I snipped?
An example might be: if somehow someone took all permissions away from all of your managers, they'd be out of luck. The superuser could still log in and fix that though. I don't know the exact details of how a superuser is created yet - I expect that you will run zpasswd.py with a special option though (and restart). The relevant install docs will be updated to outline this when that branch is merged. Brian Lloyd brian@digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com
Brian Lloyd wrote:
I notice there were some CVS checkins about renaming it to the 'emergency user'. Cool, does this mean you're going to be able to define a manager at install-time?
Yes - the whole lame login-as-superuser-create-a-manager-and-relogin process will be gone in 2.3. At install time you'll create a first manager and just use that.
Yay!
As Max asked, any 2.3 timeframe? Python Scripts and no Super User alone make it _very_ enticing :-))
I would reeeeeaaally like to see a beta by the end of Dec. - but don't quote me yet. Part of what I'm doing today is figuring what the resource situation looks like.
He can un-screw permissions or users if you ever manage to get totally locked out of your site. Think of it as a user mounted in a box on the wall labeled "in case of emergency, break glass".
How does this differ from a normal manager and how would you 'create a super user' as you descriebd in the bit I snipped?
An example might be: if somehow someone took all permissions away from all of your managers, they'd be out of luck. The superuser could still log in and fix that though.
I don't know the exact details of how a superuser is created yet - I expect that you will run zpasswd.py with a special option though (and restart). The relevant install docs will be updated to outline this when that branch is merged.
Here's how it is implemented right now. The details could change if someone can see any holes. When Zope is started, there is already some initialization code that gets run and has the opportunity to modify the ZODB if necessary. A procedure has been added that allows the root user folder to set up the initial user. If there are no users listed in the root user folder, it checks for a file named "inituser" which has the same format as the "access" file. If found, it adds that user and tries to delete "inituser". If, on the other hand, there is already at least one user, the code that checks for "inituser" is never executed. The file named "access" now defines the emergency user. It is no longer required to exist--if it doesn't exist, no one can log in as the emergency user. Creating the emergency user or the initial user is easily done with the zpasswd.py script. You use it just as before. The only difference is that wo_pcgi.py calls a method which generates "inituser" rather than "access". So, to create an emergency user, execute: python zpasswd.py access Or to create the inital user, execute: python zpasswd.py inituser The Windows installer is an unfinished detail: there's a script that executes "python zpasswd.py access". It needs to execute "python zpasswd.py inituser" instead. There will be some problems with alternate user folders. They expect to be able to call methods on the SpecialUsers.super object. When there is no emergency user, the value of SpecialUsers.super is None. The quick solution is to create an emergency user. The long-term solution is to fix the user folders. Shane
hi, So you think that because you can not get it going it's Zopes fault? Why not ask a specific question, based on what you say below I have no idea what you are doing or what your problem; this makes it difficult to write a response. Throw in a few details so we know what you are doing. I got Zope going on Linux and FreeBSD in under 10 mins each when I first installed it as a novice. ...................... ..... Jason C. Leach ... University College of the Cariboo. .. On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Norm LaDuke wrote:
Can anyone out there tell me why anyone would use a product whose tutorial won't even run. You guys are either INFINITELY more patient than I or you all have WAY too much time on your hands. I'm about 7 hours into this thing and we do finally have zope up and running but of course the tutorial doesn't work. Requires you to put in an ID then blows up and goes no further. What a piece of garbage!!!! (Does my frustration show??)
participants (7)
-
Brian Lloyd -
Chris Withers -
Jason C. Leach -
Jason Cunliffe -
Norm LaDuke -
Phil Harris -
Shane Hathaway