Hi Wankyu,

1. NeoBoard managers are NOT necessarily Zope managers. You can delegate management authorities to any "legitimate" Zope users under the tree where NeoBoard is created.

SO the user to whom management is delegated must be a legit Zope user, but need not be a Zope manger - OK, got that...

You can't make non-Zope users NeoBoard managers.

..and that /is/ a mistake I have been making. BTW, does NeoBard need a MailHost - or does it have it's own SMTP functionality? It hasn't asked me for a server, and I can't see how it could know /which/ MailHost to use...

2. NeoBoard has its own UI for management. It's because you don't want "thousands of messages" hogging the resources of your computer when accessed thru the standard ZMI. As far as I know, ZMI offers little when it comes to dealing with a long list of objects. We're talking about thousands, even tens of thousands of objects here. So I thought better of resorting to ZMI. It'd be a bit stupid to let managers waste their time trying to access NeoBoard message objects thru ZMI. I gave it a try, but I ain't pretty.

Understood. However, there are a few things that I /would/ like to be able to "get at", other than the raw message objects (I'd like to think I could work with these programmatically if not interactively, BTW). The most important is the document which "holds the board" - ideally, if this document were a DTML Method (Like Squishdot, which I have some experience with), I could then call this from my existing (DTML) page design...

When logged in as NeoBoard manager or Zope manager, you can see "Edit Properties" button just above the message list (along with Batch action buttons at the bottom). As a normal user, you can't see them. Clicking on the button lets you in on the NeoBoard Management UI including the management tabs. Only the "Contents" tab normal to Folderish objects is not visible.

OK, got it!

You can force the "Contents" tab on a particular message by accessing it thru that particular message's "URL/manage" trick.

That bit I don't get - could you expand on that, please?

When I first started developing in Zope, Zope's user folders (the stock one, and other extended versions) baffled me in that they seemed to have been designed for a small set of users, not even thousands. ...[snip]... Am I missing something, or does Zope really want the getUserNames() method to return a million records if you have that many users, for example? Please, enlighten me on this if I'm wrong.

I don't know what the practical limits are - I guess I'd be looking at LDAP or something if I wanted to manage these sorts of numbers, for all sorts of reasons...Zope Gurus (of whom I am not one!) Might have a different PoV...

I'm relatively new to Zope. It's only a month since I started porting NeoBoard from PHP. So please, bear with me if any of the above sounds "really stupid.":-)

You seem to be coming along nicely <g> - I'm a stringer-togther of other's pearls, rather than a coder (oyster?), But I hope you have as much fun with it as I do. For the record, my last two posts to this lists have had good (e.g. Problem solving) responses in 20 minutes or so - you literally couldn't get better support if you paid for it - Thanks all! Regards, PhilK

In article <FNEHJADNNBCCKKLPDFMPEEIGCAAA.wankyu@neoqst.com>, Wankyu Choi wrote:

Well, that issue I already discussed with another user on one of the boards I run at neoboard.net.

I've just taken a look at NeoBoard and it looks good. The first thing I did though was "html_quote" the message output to stop people putting in URls. IMHO this is very necessary to stop people putting in links to large remote images. This messed up the message itself though :(. So more tinkering to be done. Next I'd like to make the "allow user to post attachment" an on/off option when setting up the board. Unfortunately I can't access www.neoboard.net from here as I'm behind a firewall that appears to have no access to remote port 8080. :-( -- Eddie Butcher Road Tech Computer Systems Ltd http://www.roadrunner.uk.com 01923 338033

In article <FNEHJADNNBCCKKLPDFMPOEIGCAAA.wankyu@neoqst.com>, Wankyu Choi wrote:

You'll be able to choose which level of rendering you want on each instance of NeoBoard.

This option coming soon, too.

Both Excellent

Thanks for your feedback. Feedback from you guys really helps me view NeoBoard from another angle.

I really look forward to using this in anger.. -- Eddie Butcher Road Tech Computer Systems Ltd http://www.roadrunner.uk.com 01923 338033

I too was a little bit concerned about various forms of "HTML Abuse", although I haven't actually made it do anything horrible yet. Wankyu, have you had a look at Strip-o-gram?

PHP NeoBoard, the one I'm using at my commercial site, strips HTML tags from any messages. The problems is... Users want HTML tags. You just can't simply ignore their wishes with that "You don't want to mess up the whole page with your stupid tags" or "aren't you one of those malicious HTML hackers?" approach. To most users, It's more fun with HTML tags than without. Funnily enough, some of them even think making HTML tags work require special coding where stripping them needs more coding. As I mentioned in my previous reply to this thread, I'll give you an option for rendering the content of a message: BARE, HTML, DTML, ST. It's your call. BTW, I'd choose my ol' tagged_str.replace("<", "<").replace(">", ">") approach over integrating another product:-) Ciao, Wankyu Choi

Just as an opinion though, I'd suggest that since MailHosts are Zope's standard way of doing things, that this would be the best mechanism to use - as you say elsewhere, with Zope you do not need to "re-invent the wheel...". This would be both more intuitive to a Zope developer and provide a single point of management.

I needed a more sophisticated way to send emails: HTML (and/or attachments.) NB_Mailer class does that. I didn' think Mailhost could do both, or was I wrong in assuming so? If I'm indeed wrong in assuming so, please let me know how you could send MIME-level emails like HTML emails/emails with attachment with MailHosts. If Mailhosts can't handle that low a level mailing, I'd have to stick to NB_Mailer for future versions as well.

Hmm...I couldn't find any existing discussions along these lines - could you pride a pointer to this thread, please?

It's one of the test messages on the Test board, but never mind. I'll opt for that "choice" thing with DTML's too.

I guess this is a dilemma common to any product - but really this level of control is needed to integrate the product into a site...

OK, you further conviced me:-) Editable DTML instances coming soon.

'll do an outline document for this, if this is not duplicating anyone else's efforts.

I'd really appreciate it:-) Regards, Wankyu Choi

One howto is at http://twsite.bizland.com/twzop0021.htm (shows up in a google search for zope mailhost mime). Also the dtml-sendmail and dtml-mime tags are at least in Appendix A of the Zope book.

What I need is a programatical way of doing that:-)

The example is already fairly programmatic, I thought. It takes an email address, a document to render inside the email, and a flag for its content disposition. You need something that's not dtml, or what?

You're right. What Something not DTML. NeoBoard already has a mailer class that can handle both HTML/attachments. I just wanted to know if I reinvented the wheel, like, there's already a way to handle HTML/attachments with MailHosts or something. Not DTML. Thanks, anyway.

Okay, I'll check it out again:-) Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Mike Renfro Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:13 AM To: Wankyu Choi Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] NeoBoard - Stupid Newbie Questions On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 10:14:51AM +0900, Wankyu Choi wrote:

I just wanted to know if I reinvented the wheel, like, there's already a way to handle HTML/attachments with MailHosts or something. Not DTML.

I'm no product expert (I just got my backside roundly kicked while trying to factor out some redundant code into a separate product tonight), but I think you might have reinvented the wheel. - The MailHost product defines the <dtml-sendmail> tag, whose render() method calls the send() method on a defined mailhost. I assume that the sendmail tag takes care of all the MIME encoding before handing anything off to the mailhost, partially because much of the MIME business is handled with the <dtml-mime> tag, defined in the MIMETools product. - MailHost's send() method takes what appears to be raw message text, plus some optional headers. It appears that if those headers are not defined, it'll try to pull them out of the headers in the message text. The send() method eventually calls the _send() method, which calls the sendmail() and quit() methods on a defined SMTP server. To my admittedly untrained eye, that looks pretty much like what you're doing with the send() method of NB_Mailer.py -- it also appears that NB_Mailer is importing lots of the same libraries that the mime tag, sendmail tag, and mailhost product do. -- Mike Renfro / R&D Engineer, Center for Manufacturing Research, 931 372-3601 / Tennessee Technological University -- renfro@tntech.edu _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

Yes, SMTP functionality works only on a Unix platform. I haven't tried it out, but if you have an SMTP server on localhost, removed the following lines in the NeoBoardArticle.py and give it a try: # Enabled only on a unix platform if not os.environ.has_key('OSTYPE') or not os.environ['OSTYPE'] == 'linux-gnu': return I'll polish up this part in the next version. -----Original Message----- From: Philip Kilner [mailto:phil@xfr.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 6:05 PM To: Wankyu Choi; zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] NeoBoard - Stupid Newbie Questions Hi All, In article <VA.0000047d.00e6f2c9@xfr.co.uk>, Philip Kilner wrote:

...

So, NeoBoard comes with its own Mailer class which defaults to localhost, port 25. You don't need a Mailhost. Works only on a Unix platform, though.

I guess that's my problem - I'm on NT 4.0....(e.g. Win32)

Have just tested 0.9.3, and aren't seeing any email functionality on Win32. Should this be the case? (Zope 2.5.1 on Win2K, SMTP server (David Harris's Mercury/32) on localhost on port 25. TIA, PhilK

Great product!! Just a few suggestions regarding the products that would make my life eaiser :) (i am just a bit more selfish). I currently use Discus Boards (www.discuware.com) Since your board does work under acl_users it would be nice to have : 1. private boards vs public boards 2. acl_user' user/password based posts (not a post based - password) 3. control over who can post (similar to [1]) 4. user based email notification / topic subscription (ie users get notified of any replies to all of their post, cnetralised notification control and users can be notified of any/all posts in a particular topic) 5. Skin/template based look and feel (that would eliminate a newbie like me messing around with your DTML or CSS or python code and screwing up) I think all of the above can probably be done externally (outside of Neo) too but being a newbie myself I dont know if that would be good or bad (to have these as features of the board or not) Thanks AM Wankyu Choi wrote:

Hi Philip,

Here are some quick answers to your questions. Sorry for the lack of enough documentation. I'm a little too busy working on my own projects.

1. NeoBoard managers are NOT necessarily Zope managers. You can delegate management authorities to any "legitimate" Zope users under the tree where NeoBoard is created. You can't make non-Zope users NeoBoard managers.

2. NeoBoard has its own UI for management. It's because you don't want "thousands of messages" hogging the resources of your computer when accessed thru the standard ZMI. As far as I know, ZMI offers little when it comes to dealing with a long list of objects. We're talking about thousands, even tens of thousands of objects here. So I thought better of resorting to ZMI. It'd be a bit stupid to let managers waste their time trying to access NeoBoard message objects thru ZMI. I gave it a try, but I ain't pretty.

When logged in as NeoBoard manager or Zope manager, you can see "Edit Properties" button just above the message list (along with Batch action buttons at the bottom). As a normal user, you can't see them. Clicking on the button lets you in on the NeoBoard Management UI including the management tabs. Only the "Contents" tab normal to Folderish objects is not visible.

You can force the "Contents" tab on a particular message by accessing it thru that particular message's "URL/manage" trick.

NeoBoard's messages are Folderish. They can contain other objects, one of which is NeoBoard External File, which holds attachments as objects.

3. You can manage security of NeoBoard as you would any other products once you logged in as a Zope manager. You should be a Zope manager. NeoBoard managers' authorities stop with NeoBoard managent, no further.

4. As explained away in what little documentation I provide, NeoBoard is part of a larger project which includes my own customized User Folder. I clipped away that customized User Folder part from the public NeoBoard version since I wanted it to be as accessible as possible to any level of users.

When I first started developing in Zope, Zope's user folders (the stock one, and other extended versions) baffled me in that they seemed to have been designed for a small set of users, not even thousands. I have a commercial site which has a 300 thousand-strong user base. Throwing them into any of these User Folders would crash Zope in any minute in one way or another if used for serious user profiling/management. Am I missing something, or does Zope really want the getUserNames() method to return a million records if you have that many users, for example? Please, enlighten me on this if I'm wrong.

Anyway, the public version of NeoBoard DOES come under the standard Zope ACLs' control. (I might change the scheme, or throw in options for end users to choose from, though.)

I'm relatively new to Zope. It's only a month since I started porting NeoBoard from PHP. So please, bear with me if any of the above sounds "really stupid.":-)

All the best, Wankyu Choi --------------------------------------------------------------- To the dedicated staff at NeoQuest, language is not a problem to be dealt with, but an art waiting to be performed. --------------------------------------------------------------- Wankyou Choi CEO/President NeoQuest Communications, Inc. 3rd Floor, HMC Bldg., 730-14, Yoksam-dong, Kangnam-gu Seoul, Korea Tel: 82-2 - 501 - 7124 Fax: 82-2-501-7058 URL: http://www.neoqst.com e-mail: wankyu@neoqst.com ---------------------------------------------------------------

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