RE: [Zope] The name ZOPE (was RE: [Zope] Linux.com community ad)
On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Ben Leslie wrote:
Hi Alexander!
On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Alexander Staubo wrote:
The name is easier to distinguish for Americans, I think, who pronounce the letter "Z" differently from the character "S". I'm pretty sure Brits don't do this, but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, the verbal resemblance between "Zope" and "soap" is still pretty high.
"Zope on a rope" seems to be a general first American impression of the name. Speaking of a "clean" name...
OK this may be a small problem however I think the fact that Zope is so unique makes it fantastic. All the major search engines that I just tried (Google, AltaVista, Lycos, Infoseek) all returned Zope on the first page (well the first hit apart from AltaVista).
Zope is unique. Zope is origional. It is rather odd that php4 is now Zend. :P DC: Don't change a thing, no matter what anyone tells you :)
This is a _real_ advantage. Compare this with trying to find information on some other stuff, such as soap. I spent almost an hour the other day trying to find information on Soap without any luck (if any one has any URLs where I can find information that would be great).
Someone posted this link to SOAP on the Zope list earlier: http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/xml/general/soaptemplate.asp And here is the Microsoft SOAP IETF draft: http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/xml/general/SOAP_V09.asp
SO the point I'm trying to make is that Zope is a great name because it is unique which means its really easy to remember and just about zero chance of confusing it with anything else.
SOAP would be the only thing to really confuse it with. Haven't heard much talk about SOAP interacting with XML-RPC in Zope, or how Zope might implement SOAP later. This confusion should generally help Zope, though, not hurt it. - Ian C. Blenke <icblenke@2c2.com> <ian@blenke.com>
As one of the people who had trouble convincing management that "Zope" was a serious program, let me also weigh in with an anecdote about the worth of the name. A co-worker told his wife about "Zope" and she agreed that the name was stupid. Then he mentioned the competition: "StoryServer", "AOLServer" and "SilverStream". She said "Zope is the best name of the bunch." -- --Michael
As one of the people who had trouble convincing management that "Zope" was a serious program, let me also weigh in with an anecdote about the worth of the name. A co-worker told his wife about "Zope" and she agreed that the name was stupid. Then he mentioned the competition: "StoryServer", "AOLServer" and "SilverStream". She said "Zope is the best name of the bunch."
Any manager, or anyone for that matter, that makes a decision based on the name of a product is a moron. When I consult companies on what software to use, I present them with, or tell them to gather, just the facts. Just the technical information. Then I have them ask some questions, like: "Based on the information gathered, which tool is best suited to match our needs?" I find it astonishing that people make decisions based on a brand or product name. But that is why Microsoft makes so much money based on brand or product name. That's also why Cambells, Kraft and Dole (for example) all do so much better than store brands, even if the store brands offer more vitamins and minerals per serving. Just a stupid comparison, but you get the idea. By the way, I purchase store brands. ;-)
The name is easier to distinguish for Americans, I think, who pronounce the letter "Z" differently from the character "S". I'm pretty sure Brits don't do this, but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, the verbal resemblance between "Zope" and "soap" is still pretty high.
This is such a lame argument. No matter how you pronounce Zope the fact remains it is still _spelled_ Z-O-P-E.
It is rather odd that php4 is now Zend.
PHP4 uses Zend as the scripting engine. Zend can be used by any application server as it's scripting engine, but it started out as a rewrite of the PHP3 scripting engine. Zend has been around for quite some time and is named Zend for it's authors, ZEev Suraski and aNDi Gutmans. I don't think they chose that name to compete with Zope. Besides, if we want to compare apples to apples it would like this. PHP3/4 is an application server and would compare to Zope, an application server. Zend is a scripting engine and would compare to Python, a scripting engine. Zend will never compete with Zope. | SOAP would be the only thing to really confuse it with. Haven't heard much | talk about SOAP interacting with XML-RPC in Zope, or how Zope might | implement SOAP later. This confusion should generally help Zope, though, not | hurt it. And my opinion on SOAP is simply Microsoft trying to reinvent the wheel. I read the specs and it looks an awful like XML-RPC or WDDX... not sure why you would want to use it... Tad Murphy "cybertad" http://www.zope.org/Members/cybertad/
On Sat, Oct 16, 1999 at 03:05:48AM -0500, Tad Murphy wrote:
Any manager, or anyone for that matter, that makes a decision based on the name of a product is a moron.
And the difference between that and reality _is_? :-)
| SOAP would be the only thing to really confuse it with. Haven't heard much | talk about SOAP interacting with XML-RPC in Zope, or how Zope might | implement SOAP later. This confusion should generally help Zope, though, not | hurt it.
And my opinion on SOAP is simply Microsoft trying to reinvent the wheel. I read the specs and it looks an awful like XML-RPC or WDDX... not sure why you would want to use it...
Extensive, albeit biased, commentary on this can be found at www.scripting.com. Dave Winer seems a bit too trusting of MS, IMAO. But then, he and I don't get along well anyway. I could show you the kilobytes of cuss-mail... but why bother. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Buy copies of The New Hackers Dictionary. The Suncoast Freenet Give them to all your friends. Tampa Bay, Florida http://www.ccil.org/jargon/ +1 813 790 7592
At 19:14 16-10-99 , Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
Extensive, albeit biased, commentary on this can be found at www.scripting.com. Dave Winer seems a bit too trusting of MS, IMAO.
That's because he co-authored the specs. Also, XML-RPC was developed by him in coordination with MS, but MS didn't want to have this know too widely. -- Martijn Pieters, Web Developer | Antraciet http://www.antraciet.nl | T: +31 35 7502100 F: +31 35 7502111 | mj@antraciet.nl http://www.antraciet.nl/~mj | PGP: http://wwwkeys.nl.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xA8A32149 ---------------------------------------------
[Tad Murphy, on Sat, 16 Oct 1999]: :: And my opinion on SOAP is simply Microsoft trying to reinvent the wheel. I :: read the specs and it looks an awful like XML-RPC or WDDX... not sure why :: you would want to use it... see http://www.xmlrpc.com/discuss/msgReader$555 for Dave Winer's history of SOAP (Dave's original name for XML-RPC was SOAP).
On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Tad Murphy wrote:
As one of the people who had trouble convincing management that "Zope" was a serious program, let me also weigh in with an anecdote about the worth of the name. A co-worker told his wife about "Zope" and she agreed that the name was stupid. Then he mentioned the competition: "StoryServer", "AOLServer" and "SilverStream". She said "Zope is the best name of the bunch."
Well, ZOPE does stand for Z Object Publishing Environment, so if you don't like 'ZOPE' you could always just call it 'Z'
| SOAP would be the only thing to really confuse it with. Haven't heard much | talk about SOAP interacting with XML-RPC in Zope, or how Zope might | implement SOAP later. This confusion should generally help Zope, though, not | hurt it.
And my opinion on SOAP is simply Microsoft trying to reinvent the wheel. I read the specs and it looks an awful like XML-RPC or WDDX... not sure why you would want to use it...
Actually, IIRC SOAP _is_ XML-RPC. Or more accurately XML-RPC is an early draft version of SOAP. The same guy created both of them. He came up with the idea, and ran it past Microsoft to get some support. They thought it interesting fer awhile, and he did some development. Then Microsoft lost interest, and the author took the early version of SOAP, renamed it XML-RPC and released it. Awhile later Microsoft suddenly got interested again, did more development and/or mangling on the spec and released is as SOAP. there's a page somewhere on www.xmlrpc.org that explains it. -The Dragon De Monsyne
In article <02c801bf17ad$426416e0$60d2c5d1@cybertad>, Tad Murphy <murphyt@cybertad.com> wrote:
This is such a lame argument. No matter how you pronounce Zope the fact remains it is still _spelled_ Z-O-P-E.
"It's spelled `Zope', but it's pronounced `Throatwobbler Mangrove'". ;-)
participants (8)
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Ian Blenke -
Jay R. Ashworth -
Martijn Pieters -
Michael Hirsch -
Patrick Phalen -
Tad Murphy -
The Dragon De Monsyne -
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