Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
On 7/30/14, 6:32 PM, zopyxfilter@gmail.com wrote:
Pyramid uses _some_ ZTK modules internally however the ZTK stuff is not exposed to Pyramid. Thank You. That is why I love Grok and ZTK. It is this rich library of extensible python components conforming to ZCA.
Maybe Pyramid is closer to a framework, very stripped down, the ZCA is hidden. Pyramid uses ZCA, but does not encourage it. Grok is really a rich library of reusable components. I am only sorry that more people are not actively developing on Grok and ZCA. Chris
Christopher Lozinski wrote:
On 7/30/14, 6:32 PM, zopyxfilter@gmail.com wrote:
Pyramid uses _some_ ZTK modules internally however the ZTK stuff is not exposed to Pyramid. Thank You. That is why I love Grok and ZTK. It is this rich library of extensible python components conforming to ZCA.
Maybe Pyramid is closer to a framework, very stripped down, the ZCA is hidden. Pyramid uses ZCA, but does not encourage it. Grok is really a rich library of reusable components.
I am only sorry that more people are not actively developing on Grok and ZCA.
This is your annual complaint for 2014? Andreas
On 7/30/14, 8:01 PM, Andreas Jung wrote:
I am only sorry that more people are not actively developing on Grok and ZCA. This is your annual complaint for 2014? It is not a complaint. It is really more of a question. Let me spell it out in detail.
I would think that the world has to move to massive class libraries of reusable software components, maybe not on the client side, because it takes time to download, but certainly on the server side. Not in statically bound languages like Java or C++, but in dynamically bound languages, like like python or C#. The only significant python component architecture I know of is ZCA. Maybe there is one in C# So I would expect lots of people to be using ZCA, most easily in Grok. And Grok is quite easy to use. And yet that is not happening. Why not i wonder? There is one prominent blogger who explained he just got too frustrated, but mostly people do not post their stories of failures. They just disappear, so it is hard to abstract what the problems are. Chris
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:22 PM, Christopher Lozinski < lozinski@freerecruiting.com> wrote:
I would think that the world has to move to massive class libraries of reusable software components, maybe not on the client side, because it takes time to download, but certainly on the server side. Not in statically bound languages like Java or C++, but in dynamically bound languages, like like python or C#. The only significant python component architecture I know of is ZCA. Maybe there is one in C# So I would expect lots of people to be using ZCA, most easily in Grok. And Grok is quite easy to use. And yet that is not happening.
Why not i wonder?
That certainly is a very interesting question. And the answer is that components generally aren't particularly reusable, as they tend to be too tightly integrated with each other. Components are for making plugins to frameworks, and hence you can use a component architecture when you build a framework. (Zope3 tried building the framework OF components, but that IMO proved to be too complex). Reusability comes in the forms of libraries, services and frameworks. Hence, in your case, as you are building a new web site, you need a good website framework. There are many good Python web framework to choose between to get things done quickly. ZTK is not one of those. Neither in my opinion is Grok, which was a valiable attempt to make Zope 3 development less complex. //Lennart
Wops. I have no idea why this thread popped up in my inbox today. Sorry. On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Lennart Regebro <regebro@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:22 PM, Christopher Lozinski < lozinski@freerecruiting.com> wrote:
I would think that the world has to move to massive class libraries of reusable software components, maybe not on the client side, because it takes time to download, but certainly on the server side. Not in statically bound languages like Java or C++, but in dynamically bound languages, like like python or C#. The only significant python component architecture I know of is ZCA. Maybe there is one in C# So I would expect lots of people to be using ZCA, most easily in Grok. And Grok is quite easy to use. And yet that is not happening.
Why not i wonder?
That certainly is a very interesting question.
And the answer is that components generally aren't particularly reusable, as they tend to be too tightly integrated with each other. Components are for making plugins to frameworks, and hence you can use a component architecture when you build a framework. (Zope3 tried building the framework OF components, but that IMO proved to be too complex).
Reusability comes in the forms of libraries, services and frameworks. Hence, in your case, as you are building a new web site, you need a good website framework. There are many good Python web framework to choose between to get things done quickly. ZTK is not one of those. Neither in my opinion is Grok, which was a valiable attempt to make Zope 3 development less complex.
//Lennart
participants (3)
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Andreas Jung -
Christopher Lozinski -
Lennart Regebro