RE: [Zope] ANN: Perl For Zope
Bill wrote:
Now, for those still reading... some technical issues.
Have you SEEN perl's OO code?? I have actually compared perl and python objects, and even my anti-python friends (they are decreasing very quickly) admit that perl's handling of objects stinks to high orbit. It may be a Object publishing environment, but it still needs topublish one basic type of object. Here is where I think we will see the biggest part of the prblems on the technical side. Perl's objects are of a lesser ... refinement than Python's, and interfacing the two directly is not pretty, nor easy. That is why I favor supporting perl through CORBA, let an independant system designed specifically for that 'type' of thing handle it.
It's funny that you bring this up. One of the really interesting things about this project so far is learning about Perl internals. You're description is, apparently, pretty accurate. However, the way we've done this mitigates the issue in two ways. First, Perl doesn't need objects to fulfill its job. Functions are bound to the object system. All the real stuff (persistence, transactions, etc.) is in Zope (read: Python). Honestly, the goal really _is_ to make Perl a scripting language for Zope, not an implementation language! The contract says so! Second, ActiveState will work on improving facilities missing in Perl, such as reflection, to support our requirements (e.g. sniffing at method signatures). --Paul
Are Python Products considered implementation level? Or another question. What are the current reasons that Perl Products are a no no? Where are the lines for having other languages being first class citizens of Zope without them being "implementation languages"? I think this also goes back to and begs the question of what is core Zope and what is built upon it? This somewhat could be answered by the modularization of Zope and it's companion packages. Just a couple of questions to hopefully clarify things. Jimmie Houchin Paul Everitt wrote:
Bill wrote: [snip stuff about Perl's OO model] It's funny that you bring this up. One of the really interesting things about this project so far is learning about Perl internals. You're description is, apparently, pretty accurate.
However, the way we've done this mitigates the issue in two ways.
First, Perl doesn't need objects to fulfill its job. Functions are bound to the object system. All the real stuff (persistence, transactions, etc.) is in Zope (read: Python). Honestly, the goal really _is_ to make Perl a scripting language for Zope, not an implementation language! The contract says so!
Second, ActiveState will work on improving facilities missing in Perl, such as reflection, to support our requirements (e.g. sniffing at method signatures).
--Paul
Look, a whole bunch of great questions for Wed's IRC chat. :^) I propose 1PM Eastern on Wed for the chat. We'll make a more formal announcement tomorrow. (Right, Ethan?) --Paul Jimmie Houchin wrote:
Are Python Products considered implementation level?
Or another question. What are the current reasons that Perl Products are a no no?
Where are the lines for having other languages being first class citizens of Zope without them being "implementation languages"?
I think this also goes back to and begs the question of what is core Zope and what is built upon it?
This somewhat could be answered by the modularization of Zope and it's companion packages.
Just a couple of questions to hopefully clarify things.
Jimmie Houchin
Paul Everitt wrote:
Bill wrote: [snip stuff about Perl's OO model] It's funny that you bring this up. One of the really interesting things about this project so far is learning about Perl internals. You're description is, apparently, pretty accurate.
However, the way we've done this mitigates the issue in two ways.
First, Perl doesn't need objects to fulfill its job. Functions are bound to the object system. All the real stuff (persistence, transactions, etc.) is in Zope (read: Python). Honestly, the goal really _is_ to make Perl a scripting language for Zope, not an implementation language! The contract says so!
Second, ActiveState will work on improving facilities missing in Perl, such as reflection, to support our requirements (e.g. sniffing at method signatures).
--Paul
"The Perl for Zope project brings the worlds of the two most important open source programming languages together," stated Gisle Aas, Senior Developer, ActiveState. "Python programmers will be able to directly take advantage of the large collection of reusable Perl program modules, like DBI, found on CPAN.
This is good. Another trick in the tool bag. Being able to make use of Perl modules from Python is like the functionality provided by database adapters: Zope lets me access crufty old-fashioned relational databases if I need to.
participants (3)
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Andrew Wilcox -
Jimmie Houchin -
Paul Everitt