Oedipus / Zope / python / product / XML ++
Hi there .. I've been looking into something this weekend. I need somehting that can handle my link database etc. and list them through Zope on a regular basis. I was looking at Oedipus which can create "semi-xml" DMOZ like directories which would suffice for v0.1b of my product. I was thinking of using Oedipus and store them in the database there and generate a new xml-like-structure every day through some cron script. .. what I was hoping for is to use the LocalFS product for Zope and some kind of python "product" (which I need to make to fit into Zope) which can parse this .. sort of like the *.cgi script which followed with the Oedipus installation. By doing this; I can generate DMOZ/Link databases that show information about the site; when it was checked last, updated etc. etc. My questions are as follows; * How do I generate a package of some pythong scripts? * Are there any better ways of parsing and putting this xml-like file under "Zope control" .. * Are there any XML products for Zope that can get a file from an url .. and parse this with some python scripts to generate a yahoo type listing? Would apriciate any input! -- Med vennlig hilsen, Jørgen Skogstad /\ System Specialist \\ \ \ \\ / Sun Microsystems AS / \/ / / Gjerdrums vei 12 / / \//\ N-0486 Oslo, NORWAY \//\ / / / / /\ / Phone: + 47 22 02 39 00 / \\ \ Cellular: + 47 92 41 30 23 \ \\ Fax: + 47 22 02 39 99 \/ EMail: jorgen.skogstad@Norway.Sun.Com Web: www.sun.no BTW; Opinions formed by myself in informal mailings are mine and not of my employer.
Hi! I write and maintain a project "Bookamrks Database and Internet robot" (detailed announce after quotations). It is not exactly what you want, but I have plans to add Oedipus to my list of databases. Probably there are fields we may cooperate. I am very short on time these days :( On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, [iso-8859-1] JЬrgen Skogstad wrote:
I've been looking into something this weekend. I need somehting that can handle my link database etc. and list them through Zope on a regular basis.
I was looking at Oedipus which can create "semi-xml" DMOZ like directories which would suffice for v0.1b of my product. I was thinking of using Oedipus and store them in the database there and generate a new xml-like-structure every day through some cron script.
.. what I was hoping for is to use the LocalFS product for Zope and some kind of python "product" (which I need to make to fit into Zope) which can parse this .. sort of like the *.cgi script which followed with the Oedipus installation.
By doing this; I can generate DMOZ/Link databases that show information about the site; when it was checked last, updated etc. etc.
My questions are as follows; * How do I generate a package of some pythong scripts? * Are there any better ways of parsing and putting this xml-like file under "Zope control" ..
* Are there any XML products for Zope that can get a file from an url .. and parse this with some python scripts to generate a yahoo type listing?
Would apriciate any input!
BOOKMARKS Database and Internet robot WHAT IS IT Here is a set of classes, libraries, programs and plugins I use to manipulate my bookmarks.html. I like Netscape Navigator, but I need more features, so I write and maintain these programs for my needs. I need to extend Navigator's "What's new" feature (Navigator 4 named it "Update bookmarks"). WHAT'S NEW in version 3.0 Complete rewrite from scratch. Created mechanism for pluggable storage managers, writers and robots. WHAT'S NEW in version 3.1.2 Minor speed improvements in parser (just removed debug output if not in debug mode). New program check_dups.py prints a list of duplcat URLs in the DB. WHERE TO GET Master site: http://sun.med.ru/~phd/Software/Python/#bookmarks_db Faster mirrors: http://skyscraper.fortunecity.com/unix/797/Software/Python/#bookmarks_db http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/phd2.1/Software/Python/index.html#bookmarks_db AUTHOR Oleg Broytmann <phd2@earthling.net> COPYRIGHT Copyright (C) 1997-2000 PhiloSoft Design LICENSE GPL STATUS Storage managers: pickle, FLAD (Flat ASCII Database). Writers: HTML, text, FLAD. Robots (URL checker): simple, forking. TODO More storage managers: shelve, SQL, MetaKit. More robots: threading, async. Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://phd.pp.ru/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
LICENSE GPL
I've seen several Zope products using the GPL. In my not so humble opinion, this could develop into a serious problem for Zope deployment. I'm not a lawyer (nor do I play one on TV), but the use of GPL'ed source code like e.g. Renderable ZClass in your web site probably means that you're now forced to publish every single bit of source built using the GPL'ed module -- including commercial intranet projects. This can be impossible if you don't own the rights to every single piece of code used in a project. I hope Zope product developers think twice about using the GPL. The GPL license is not about sharing like e.g. the BSD license, it's about enforcing the political agenda of people who think that commercial ("proprietary") software w/o source code is evil. Cheers, Nils -- nika@acm.org nika@kassube.de (preferred) 4kassube@informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Nils Kassube wrote:
I hope Zope product developers think twice about using the GPL. The GPL license is not about sharing like e.g. the BSD license, it's about enforcing the political agenda of people who think that commercial ("proprietary") software w/o source code is evil.
This is very true... I think it's made worse by the fact that a lot of people just select 'GPL' from the dropdown list on the products page without realising the implications... cheers, Chris
Hi! On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Nils Kassube wrote:
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
LICENSE GPL
I've seen several Zope products using the GPL. In my not so humble opinion, this could develop into a serious problem for Zope deployment. I'm not a lawyer (nor do I play one on TV), but the use of GPL'ed source code like e.g. Renderable ZClass in your web site probably means that you're now forced to publish every single bit of source built using the GPL'ed module -- including commercial intranet projects. This can be impossible if you don't own the rights to every single piece of code used in a project.
No, you are not forced to publish anything. GPL "virus" applied only if you want to *distribute* combined (your code + my GPL'd code).
I hope Zope product developers think twice about using the GPL. The GPL license is not about sharing like e.g. the BSD license, it's about enforcing the political agenda of people who think that commercial ("proprietary") software w/o source code is evil.
Yes, exactly! You've got the point! I love GPL! :) Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://phd.pp.ru/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
phd@phd.russ.ru (Oleg Broytmann) wrote:
No, you are not forced to publish anything. GPL "virus" applied only if you want to *distribute* combined (your code + my GPL'd code).
Like in "distributing to clients"? So that I have to publish source code to the whole world (not only clients) then? From: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copyleft.html --cut-- Copyleft also helps programmers who want to contribute improvements to free software get permission to do that. These programmers often work for companies or universities that would do almost anything to get more money. A programmer may want to contribute her changes to the community, but her employer may want to turn the changes into a proprietary software product. When we explain to the employer that it is illegal to distribute the improved version except as free software, the employer usually decides to release it as free software rather than throw it away. To copyleft a program, first we copyright it; then we add distribution terms, which are a legal instrument that gives everyone the rights to use, modify, and redistribute the program's code or any program derived from it but only if the distribution terms are unchanged. Thus, the code and the freedoms become legally inseparable. --cut-- How do I separate my work inside a Zope-based application from GPL'ed pieces to prevent this from happening? Looks like a lot of trouble. It's easy to deal with GPL'ed programs like gcc, but how do you handle GPL'ed components in a complex object oriented environment? I'm not a lawyer, I'm (want to be) a software engineer, so what are my options? Risk a lawsuit from a GPL-using author or rewrite from scratch. Cheers, Nils -- nika@acm.org nika@kassube.de (preferred) 4kassube@informatik.uni-hamburg.de
On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Nils Kassube wrote:
phd@phd.russ.ru (Oleg Broytmann) wrote:
No, you are not forced to publish anything. GPL "virus" applied only if you want to *distribute* combined (your code + my GPL'd code).
Like in "distributing to clients"? So that I have to publish source code to the whole world (not only clients) then?
I am not a lawyer, and certainly not authorized to interpret the License. But as one of the people who respect your freedom, I will do all my best to protect your freedom (in the way that do not limit my freedom). You are free to use my code, to read it and patch it, to send me your patches or to fork the code. AND FINALLY YOUR ARE FREE TO *ignore* MY CODE! But please, please! If you respect my freedom - do not ask me to change the license. I love GPL and found it pretty suitable for my needs. Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://phd.pp.ru/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
Hi all! Now Nils and Oleg are giving me the creeps. Is it not possible to take a few GPLed Zope products, add your own effort of configuring, integrating, building, (re-)designing, and even documenting the outcome of your efforts and - ___sell___ this? Maybe not only to _one_ customer, but burn a CD and sell it to _a couple_ of customers? In my opinion (yes, opinion has nothing to do with lawyers and courts ;-)), in this case you wouldn't be selling other people's products, no you would have created something new, which ___you___ can put a copyright on. It's a compilation, and with enough value-adding effort put in to this compilation, none of the respective GPL authors could claim to be co-author of your production. Since you don't want to (only) sell your service of deploying, but also your new product. (product in its conventional meaning, I would call a Zope product a "module" in this respect) Well I might just be dreaming... Maybe someone can wake me up if I am. tia Danny -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]Im Auftrag von Oleg Broytmann Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. September 2000 18:08 An: Nils Kassube Cc: zope@zope.org Betreff: Re: [Zope] Zope and the GPL poison pill On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Nils Kassube wrote:
phd@phd.russ.ru (Oleg Broytmann) wrote:
No, you are not forced to publish anything. GPL "virus" applied only if you want to *distribute* combined (your code + my GPL'd code).
Like in "distributing to clients"? So that I have to publish source code to the whole world (not only clients) then?
I am not a lawyer, and certainly not authorized to interpret the License. But as one of the people who respect your freedom, I will do all my best to protect your freedom (in the way that do not limit my freedom). You are free to use my code, to read it and patch it, to send me your patches or to fork the code. AND FINALLY YOUR ARE FREE TO *ignore* MY CODE! But please, please! If you respect my freedom - do not ask me to change the license. I love GPL and found it pretty suitable for my needs. Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://phd.pp.ru/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Danny William Adair wrote:
Now Nils and Oleg are giving me the creeps. Is it not possible to take a few GPLed Zope products, add your own effort of configuring, integrating, building, (re-)designing, and even documenting the outcome of your efforts and - ___sell___ this? Maybe not only to _one_ customer, but burn a CD and sell it to _a couple_ of customers?
You are pretty free to sell it, but you are forced to distribute GPL'd sources along with binaries. Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://phd.pp.ru/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
Danny William Adair wrote:
Is it not possible to take a few GPLed Zope products, add your own effort of configuring, integrating, building, (re-)designing, and even documenting the outcome of your efforts and - ___sell___ this? Maybe not only to _one_ customer, but burn a CD and sell it to _a couple_ of customers?
You can sell it but... AFAIK you risk that everyone else can copy your effort for free if you built software on GPL'ed code. And what's only a compilation and what's a derived work (subject to the GPL) is up to the lawyers. Personally, I try to avoid legal ambiguities. Cheers, Nils -- nika@acm.org nika@kassube.de (preferred) 4kassube@informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Danny William Adair wrote:
Hi all!
Now Nils and Oleg are giving me the creeps. Is it not possible to take a few GPLed Zope products, add your own effort of configuring, integrating, building, (re-)designing, and even documenting the outcome of your efforts and - ___sell___ this? Maybe not only to _one_ customer, but burn a CD and sell it to _a couple_ of customers?
Yes, you can. BUT, you must make the source code available.
In my opinion (yes, opinion has nothing to do with lawyers and courts ;-)), in this case you wouldn't be selling other people's products, no you would have created something new, which ___you___ can put a copyright on. It's a compilation, and with enough value-adding effort put in to this compilation, none of the respective GPL authors could claim to be co-author of your production. Since you don't want to (only) sell your service of deploying, but also your new product. (product in its conventional meaning, I would call a Zope product a "module" in this respect)
This is exactly why I decided to GPL my FreePM project. A company with deeper pockets for marketing and more presence in the marketplace could take my work (under some of the other licenses ) and use it to their own gain. Under the GPL, they must make their source available too. The GPL is not a cure all. But it certainly has it's place.
But as one of the people who respect your freedom, I will do all my best to protect your freedom (in the way that do not limit my freedom). You are free to use my code, to read it and patch it, to send me your patches or to fork the code. AND FINALLY YOUR ARE FREE TO *ignore* MY CODE!
But please, please! If you respect my freedom - do not ask me to change the license. I love GPL and found it pretty suitable for my needs.
Oleg.
Exactly! <g> -- Tim Cook -- Cook Information Systems | Office: (901) 884-4126 8am-5pm CDT * Specializing in Open Source Business Systems * FreePM Project Coordinator http://www.freepm.org OSHCA Founding Supporter http://www.oshca.org
"TC" == Tim Cook <twcook@iswt.com> writes:
TC> Danny William Adair wrote: >> Hi all! >> >> Now Nils and Oleg are giving me the creeps. Is it not possible >> to take a few GPLed Zope products, add your own effort of >> configuring, integrating, building, (re-)designing, and even >> documenting the outcome of your efforts and - ___sell___ this? >> Maybe not only to _one_ customer, but burn a CD and sell it to >> _a couple_ of customers? >> TC> Yes, you can. BUT, you must make the source code available. And before we get too far -- Source code available to the recipient means just that. They (the recipient) have it available to them. That doesn't necessarily mean that you ship it, but that it is available to them. And that definitely doesn't mean "available to the world". Though, this whole argument is sort of silly, given that we are talking about extensions to an "open source platform" to begin with, so that sales based on services make more sense than shrinkwarp'd (sic) EULA-code.. best, -tony -- A.J. Rossini Rsrch. Asst. Prof. of Biostatistics BlindGlobe Networks (home/default) rossini@blindglobe.net UW Biostat/Center for AIDS Research rossini@u.washington.edu FHCRC/SCHARP/HIV Vaccine Trials Net rossini@scharp.org FHCRC: M/Tu: 206-667-7025 (fax=4812) | Voicemail is pretty sketchy CFAR: W/F: 206-731-3647 (fax=3694) | Email is far better than phone UW: Th/F: 206-543-1044 (fax=3286) | Change last 4 digits of phone for fax
On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 06:02:15PM +0200, Nils Kassube wrote:
phd@phd.russ.ru (Oleg Broytmann) wrote:
No, you are not forced to publish anything. GPL "virus" applied only if you want to *distribute* combined (your code + my GPL'd code).
Like in "distributing to clients"? So that I have to publish source code to the whole world (not only clients) then?
No. If you give binaries to someone, you have to also give sources. You're not obliged to give the binaries to anyone. You can charge big bucks for the binaries, but if someone has them they're free to redistribute it. []s, |alo +---- -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:lalo@hackandroll.org pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar
On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:30:16PM +0200, Nils Kassube wrote:
I hope Zope product developers think twice about using the GPL. The GPL license is not about sharing like e.g. the BSD license, it's about enforcing the political agenda of people who think that commercial ("proprietary") software w/o source code is evil.
I happen do think proprietary software is evil. That said, I hereby declare that subclasses of Renderable should not be considered derivative works for the purposes of the GPL. I will add that to the README. []s, |alo +---- -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:lalo@hackandroll.org pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar
Nils Kassube wrote:
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
LICENSE GPL
I've seen several Zope products using the GPL. In my not so humble opinion, this could develop into a serious problem for Zope deployment. I'm not a lawyer (nor do I play one on TV), but the use of GPL'ed source code like e.g. Renderable ZClass in your web site probably means that you're now forced to publish every single bit of source built using the GPL'ed module --
No. This is clearly incorrect. The GPL only applies to the code, and modifications to said code. If you are in doubt as to the licensaes of various systems, ask a lawyer. Many of the rest of us have.
including commercial intranet projects. This can be impossible if you don't own the rights to every single piece of code used in a project.
I hope Zope product developers think twice about using the GPL. The GPL license is not about sharing like e.g. the BSD license, it's about enforcing the political agenda of people who think that commercial ("proprietary") software w/o source code is evil.
Please, take license religous wars elsewhere. This is not an appropriate forum. This last paragraph sounds very troll-like, or flame-baiting to me. This list is about using Zope. -- Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy, and have the root password.
I replied to the message below promising to edit Renderable's README to explicitly declare that I don't consider ZClass subclassing to be a derivative work for the purposes of the GPL. Somehow, I didn't get my reply from the list. But never mind. I went to my folder on Zope.org to edit the README and, surprise! License: ZPL Renderable wasn't even GPL'ed to begin with. And this isn't a mistake; now that I think if it, I clearly remember having chosen the ZPL so that DC folks could easily take the changes and merge them into Zope if they wished. I don't know about you, but after this thread has degenerated into a wholesale flamewar, I find this fact rather amusing. On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:30:16PM +0200, Nils Kassube wrote:
but the use of GPL'ed source code like e.g. Renderable ZClass in your web site probably means that you're now forced to publish every single bit of source built using the GPL'ed module -- including commercial intranet projects. This can be impossible if you don't own the rights to every single piece of code used in a project.
[]s, |alo +---- -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:lalo@hackandroll.org pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar
lalo@hackandroll.org (Lalo Martins) wrote:
Renderable wasn't even GPL'ed to begin with. And this isn't a mistake; now that I think if it, I clearly remember having chosen the ZPL so that DC folks could easily take the changes and merge them into Zope if they wished.
My copy of Renderable ZClass 0.2 says: # Renderable superclass for ZClasses # overrides the __str__ method to return the results of a "render" DTML method # if it exists and <a href=objname>objname</a> if it doesn't # Copyright (C) 1999 by Lalo Martins # Distributed under the terms of the GNU GPL, version 2 or later Cheers, Nils -- nika@acm.org nika@kassube.de (preferred) 4kassube@informatik.uni-hamburg.de
On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 10:23:21AM +0200, Nils Kassube wrote:
lalo@hackandroll.org (Lalo Martins) wrote:
Renderable wasn't even GPL'ed to begin with. And this isn't a mistake; now that I think if it, I clearly remember having chosen the ZPL so that DC folks could easily take the changes and merge them into Zope if they wished.
My copy of Renderable ZClass 0.2 says:
# Copyright (C) 1999 by Lalo Martins # Distributed under the terms of the GNU GPL, version 2 or later
Ah, thanks. Now _that_ is a mistake. Habit is a powerful thing :-) I'll make a new release (it's been stable for almost an year, so I'll add some documentation and call it a beta), but in the meanwhile consider it ZPL'ed; the license in the site is the correct one. []s, |alo +---- -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:lalo@hackandroll.org pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar
participants (9)
-
Bill Anderson -
Chris Withers -
Danny William Adair -
Jørgen Skogstad -
Lalo Martins -
Nils Kassube -
Oleg Broytmann -
rossini＠blindglobe.net -
Tim Cook