RE: [Zope] Help Needed - Case for Zope
I saw these earlier. These seem to be the only numbers, or 'real' numbers available. But they're OLD! ZServer has improved between Zope 2.1 (which is when I last used it) and now. I think showing Zope to be faster than Tomcat, as the numbers indicate, will be difficult to support, especially since I don't believe it myself. Thanks all the same. Samir. -----Original Message----- From: J Cameron Cooper [mailto:jccooper@jcameroncooper.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 00:34 To: 'zope@zope.org' Subject: Re: [Zope] Help Needed - Case for Zope There are some numbers here: http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/zope_benchmarks/benchmarks.html --jcc _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
I saw these earlier. These seem to be the only numbers, or 'real' numbers available. But they're OLD! ZServer has improved between Zope 2.1 (which is when I last used it) and now. I think showing Zope to be faster than Tomcat, as the numbers indicate, will be difficult to support, especially since I don't believe it myself.
I don't know what's not to believe. A servlet engine has at least as much to do as Zope, if not more. Although benchmarks are a very small part of the story as far as I'm concerned, there is a need for such numbers. I think I'll try to find time Thursday to do some tests with the usual suspects (at least so far as my work is concerned): Zope, Apache, Tomcat, Jetty, and maybe a little JBoss. The results will certainly be published. --jcc
On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 12:14:14AM -0600, J Cameron Cooper wrote:
Although benchmarks are a very small part of the story as far as I'm concerned, there is a need for such numbers. I think I'll try to find time Thursday to do some tests with the usual suspects (at least so far as my work is concerned): Zope, Apache, Tomcat, Jetty, and maybe a little JBoss.
The results will certainly be published.
yay! one request: please don't do anything that skeptics can point to and say e.g. "but zope wasn't serving as much data". there were a number of comparisons on the BwanaZulia page where zope had a slight advantage in terms of bytes delivered. It may seem trivial, but marketing zope vs. java-app-server-X is an uphill battle, so every little bit matters. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com
IMHO it is much more useful to have a more complete set of data, even if it shows shortcomings, than to have a "redacted" set that leaves out some not-so-good areas. marketing is good, but we are not micro$haft, after all. i don't think we have to stoop to that level of "being economical with the truth". jens On Wednesday, Mar 5, 2003, at 08:47 US/Eastern, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 12:14:14AM -0600, J Cameron Cooper wrote:
Although benchmarks are a very small part of the story as far as I'm concerned, there is a need for such numbers. I think I'll try to find time Thursday to do some tests with the usual suspects (at least so far as my work is concerned): Zope, Apache, Tomcat, Jetty, and maybe a little JBoss.
The results will certainly be published.
yay! one request: please don't do anything that skeptics can point to and say e.g. "but zope wasn't serving as much data". there were a number of comparisons on the BwanaZulia page where zope had a slight advantage in terms of bytes delivered. It may seem trivial, but marketing zope vs. java-app-server-X is an uphill battle, so every little bit matters.
--
Paul Winkler
At 10:14 PM 3/4/2003, J Cameron Cooper wrote:
I think showing Zope to be faster than Tomcat, as the numbers indicate, will be difficult to support, especially since I don't believe it myself.
Although benchmarks are a very small part of the story as far as I'm concerned, there is a need for such numbers.
Indeed. Zope is a decent enough performer in benchmark testing and we should know where it stands. But the real case for Zope is not its speed as a server, but its speed as a development platform. You can increase performance speed easily enough... get faster hardware, a bigger pipe, more caching, a reverse proxy, do load balancing. It doesn't take a heck of a lot to build a world-class service *around* Zope. Where Zope shines is in time to market and ease of maintenance. It's going to be tough to give a precise benchmark on how much faster it is to build something in Zope than it is in J2EE or Jboss. But it is appreciably faster, perhaps by an order of magnitude. Developer time and support resources just aren't things most shops can come up with as easily as cash for hardware. The learning curve is shorter too. If you're a moderately experienced developer, you can pick up 90% of Python in a day or two. I've never heard that said about Java... at least not with a straight face. :-) Perhaps the best way to make a case for Zope is to prototype something. Give yourself a little time to do some reading up front, but then just rip into something. In many ways Zope is a gotta-see-it-to-believe-it proposition. Lots of platforms claim to make things easy... but the proof is in doing something nontrivial. In the time it takes to evaluate Zope and measure it against other platforms you could almost be done with a rough prototype of your system. HTH, Dylan
participants (5)
-
Dylan Reinhardt -
J Cameron Cooper -
Jens Vagelpohl -
Paul Winkler -
Samir Mishra