hi, I'm kind of surprised that Active State has such a big promo on Zope.org's site considering they use IIS; and considering the blurb talks about how much they do for Open Source. j. ...................... ..... Jason C. Leach ... University College of the Cariboo. ..
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 12:35:53AM -0800, Jason C. Leach wrote:
I'm kind of surprised that Active State has such a big promo on Zope.org's site considering they use IIS; and considering the blurb talks about how much they do for Open Source.
If you read the case study, you'll see that they use Zope extensively for their mailing list archives, their documentation and the CPAN info server. ActiveState, like many companies (Greenpeace springs to mind) is using Zope to build new sites. Existing websites often have cost lots of time and money to build, not everyone is ready to immediatly dump the existing code for something else, however much better. And if you browse the ActiveState site some more, you'll see what they do for OSS. Who says that an OSS shop needs to run exclusively on OSS or has no right to sell software solutions? We at Digital Creations also use Windows NT and other commercial software, and our services also come with a price tag. -- Martijn Pieters | Software Engineer mailto:mj@digicool.com | Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com/ | Creators of Zope http://www.zope.org/ ---------------------------------------------
And if you browse the ActiveState site some more, you'll see what they do for OSS. Who says that an OSS shop needs to run exclusively on OSS or has no right to sell software solutions? We at Digital Creations also use Windows NT and other commercial software, and our services also come with a price tag.
Well put. Couldn't agree more. Take the best tool for the job, based not only on software quality and price, but also on development time, available expertise and stuff that's already in place. In some cases that means you can build a totally open solution based on OSS. In other cases it means a closed solution based on Microsoft products for example. In most cases however it's a mix of multiple hardware and software platforms, in which OSS fits well because of the 'Open' part. I for one will recommend OSS most of the time (because of price, performance, managebility and stability), but there are a number of situations where a 'closed' piece of software is a better fit. HTH Jonathan
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 11:32:29AM +0100, Martijn Pieters wrote:
And if you browse the ActiveState site some more, you'll see what they do for OSS.
Who says that an OSS shop needs to run exclusively on OSS or has no right to sell software solutions?
We at Digital Creations also use Windows NT and other commercial software, and our services also come with a price tag.
Just for the record: The "right to sell software solutions" and the right to do "services with a price tag" are even very crucial and important points in the world of free software (read about RMS position in "Selling Free Software" at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html). What the free software community dislikes is selling *proprietary* software solutions. In my own words: Money flow is no problem at all, as long as it doesn't take away any crucial freedoms ;-). Gregor PS: The crucial point about selling free software is certainly that you get paid for the solution and for the work being done, not for the license to use the software.
hi,
I'm kind of surprised that Active State has such a big promo on Zope.org's site considering they use IIS; and considering the blurb talks about how much they do for Open Source.
We use IIS for many reasons, it's fast and we use some of products in conjunction with it. To suggest that using IIS is somehow "wrong" confuses me, Zope.org doesn't use ZServer. For me the flexibilty of using Zope any way we see fit is its greatest strength. We made a decision to serve "static" content using a simple fast server and dynamic content using Zope. Actually we have the main web site in Zope. Its the CMS for the main web site and only accessible internally. This allows multiple users to access and make changes, templating and so on. Since this content changes very rarely we use wget hack to move the information to the main web site to be served by IIS, since IIS can serve out many more pages per second that Zope can (because it is doing some much less). This is a "right product for the right job" decision. For the dynamic portions (mailing list arcive etc.) we use Zope and ZServer quite happily on the front end. One day we may move to having the whole site in Zope, who knows :). As mentioned we do a great deal for Open Source (ActivePerl, ActivePython, PyXPCOM, PPM and so on) to name a just a bit. ActiveState is one of the very few companies where we pay people to hack open source stuff all day. In the same way Guido works for DC and spends time on Python, we have many talented Python and Perl developers (David Ascher, Paul Prescod, Gurusamy Sarathy, Jan Dubois) who in put a great deal of Open Source work. Cheers. -- Andy McKay, Developer. ActiveState.
j.
...................... ..... Jason C. Leach ... University College of the Cariboo. ..
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On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 09:42:51AM -0800, Andy McKay wrote:
Zope.org doesn't use ZServer.
Small technicality: Zope.org *does* use ZServer. See: http://www.zope.org/About We use Apache with ProxyPass, because of of the configuration flexibility and caching of images and files. But Apache talks to Zope via ZServer. -- Martijn Pieters | Software Engineer mailto:mj@digicool.com | Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com/ | Creators of Zope http://www.zope.org/ ---------------------------------------------
Good point. Apache does talk to ZServer, I was referring to the most front-end component, which is what the user sees. For all anybody knows we could be using ZServer behind IIS using pcgi. We aren't, but we could, in fact that would have been a very cocky answer... -- Andy McKay. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martijn Pieters" <mj@digicool.com> To: "Andy McKay" <andym@activestate.com> Cc: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] ActiveState on Zope.org
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 09:42:51AM -0800, Andy McKay wrote:
Zope.org doesn't use ZServer.
Small technicality: Zope.org *does* use ZServer. See:
We use Apache with ProxyPass, because of of the configuration flexibility and caching of images and files. But Apache talks to Zope via ZServer.
-- Martijn Pieters | Software Engineer mailto:mj@digicool.com | Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com/ | Creators of Zope http://www.zope.org/ ---------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
We use IIS for many reasons, it's fast and we use some of products in conjunction with it. To suggest that using IIS is somehow "wrong" confuses me, Zope.org doesn't use ZServer. For me the flexibilty of using Zope any
Doesn't every Zope site use ZServer? These statements always confuse me. When I ./start zope aren't I starting ZServer?
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 01:40:07PM -0600, Steve Drees wrote:
We use IIS for many reasons, it's fast and we use some of products in conjunction with it. To suggest that using IIS is somehow "wrong" confuses me, Zope.org doesn't use ZServer. For me the flexibilty of using Zope any
Doesn't every Zope site use ZServer? These statements always confuse me. When I ./start zope aren't I starting ZServer?
You can also use PCGI to start a single threaded Zope without ZServer. This used to be the only way in the olden days. Not many people use it anymore. -- Martijn Pieters | Software Engineer mailto:mj@digicool.com | Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com/ | Creators of Zope http://www.zope.org/ ---------------------------------------------
As per Martijn's comment, yes all sites use ZServer you are correct. Sorry for any confusion. I was refering to the most front visible component, but did not make that clear. -- Andy McKay. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Drees" <drees@the-bridge.net> To: "Zope@Zope. Org" <zope@zope.org> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [Zope] ActiveState on Zope.org
We use IIS for many reasons, it's fast and we use some of products in conjunction with it. To suggest that using IIS is somehow "wrong" confuses me, Zope.org doesn't use ZServer. For me the flexibilty of using Zope any
Doesn't every Zope site use ZServer? These statements always confuse me. When I ./start zope aren't I starting ZServer?
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participants (6)
-
Andy McKay -
Gregor Hoffleit -
Jason C. Leach -
Jonathan (Listserv Account) -
Martijn Pieters -
Steve Drees