Right on time! I was just looking at zwiki this and zfishbowl that trying to find something *new* because the old docs make me want to wait and see if they ever implement the same *features* into DTML. DTML hurt so good. I'm afraid if I go after ZPT I'm going to start looking at chains and leather in a whole new light. Yes it looks good on the surface, but to me it hurts like heck trying to figure out what it does. Thanks for the effort people. -Jimbo