I am very_very_very bored with the "politics" beside the rpm based distribuition (redhat, mandrake), which made impossible to to not be updating anything at any minute of the day (distributions that creates any kind of dependencies based on librairies, on anything). I want to have a really stable server on the net (for running zope), where I can upgrade without having to upgrade anything. I would like to have your opinion about (all oriented to Zope): Debian Suse FreeBSD (anything better? A mix ?? Debian+Slackware???) -- __o _ \<_ (_)/(_) Saludos de Julián EA4ACL -.-
On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 11:24:40AM +0000, JuliАn MuЯoz DomМnguez wrote:
I am very_very_very bored with the "politics" beside the rpm based distribuition (redhat, mandrake), which made impossible to to not be updating anything at any minute of the day (distributions that creates any kind of dependencies based on librairies, on anything).
Agree. RPM is not the best solution (that why it was selected as the most popular).
I want to have a really stable server on the net (for running zope), where I can upgrade without having to upgrade anything. I would like to have your opinion about (all oriented to Zope):
Debian
I use Debian and I am pretty happy.
FreeBSD
I saw many reports about problems on FreeBSD. Stability problems and the like. Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
+-------[ Oleg Broytmann ]---------------------- | | > FreeBSD | | I saw many reports about problems on FreeBSD. Stability problems and the | like. Never had a problem in over 3 years with multiple Zope installations running FreeBSD. Of course I know how to properly configure *my* systems... Any variant of UNIX is going to be suitable, since you always have the ability to build from source. Pick the one you for which you have the most friends that know something about it. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| | Andrew Milton The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | | ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|
Oleg Broytmann <phd@phd.pp.ru> wrote with "Re: [Zope] Better unix distrib for zope ??" subject: Hello Oleg Broytmann!
Debian I use Debian and I am pretty happy. i use to.
FreeBSD I saw many reports about problems on FreeBSD. Stability problems and the like. stability???? i use FreeBSD servers with zope (and some servers), and i had no porblem with stability.
<no_os_war> can i make kernel panic with d*bian on *very* high traffic site, and freebsd this run very fine. </no_os_war> -- best wishes, Gabor Suveg <gsuveg@sgsystem.com> http://sgsystem.com/gsuveg.gpg GnuPG fingerprint: F089 FD93 6B46 9DE2 5927 0238 87DE 9377 9B29 0CA1
* Julián Muñoz Domínguez <jmunoz@softhome.net> [011003 12:35]:
I want to have a really stable server on the net (for running zope), where I can upgrade without having to upgrade anything. I would like to have your opinion about (all oriented to Zope):
One of the nice things about Zope is that it doesn't have any dependencies outside the standard libraries. I've never had any problems compiling it on any platform. It's also very self-contained; apart from some little things like start and stop scripts, there's little a distribution package will offer you over a source install, IMO. seb
I am a newbie, but I have got this problems with zope, related to the dependencies: - latest source distibution requires python 2.1 (which is very recent, and no all Linux distribs have it)... - It is not possible to compile extensions with zope binary distributions, because it lacks some headers. Many products requires compiling extensions, so that readdress me to point 1. Couldn't this be solutioned in next zope distribs ? So in general it is following the foolish of this last year in the Open Software, all is mooving tooooo quicklyyyyyy :-O In this conditions, slackware's old way packaging system (tar.gz) seems the better..... :-) On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, seb bacon wrote:
* Julián Muñoz Domínguez <jmunoz@softhome.net> [011003 12:35]:
I want to have a really stable server on the net (for running zope), where I can upgrade without having to upgrade anything. I would like to have your opinion about (all oriented to Zope):
One of the nice things about Zope is that it doesn't have any dependencies outside the standard libraries. I've never had any problems compiling it on any platform. It's also very self-contained; apart from some little things like start and stop scripts, there's little a distribution package will offer you over a source install, IMO.
seb
-- __o _ \<_ (_)/(_) Saludos de Julián EA4ACL -.-
Seb, true, however, in my experience its nice to have a more standard site python install. (if only because it seems messy somehow to have to put up with a proliferation on pythons on one box). in my experience SuSE handles this quite nicely, i.e. if you install Zope via SuSE RPMs you get a "clean" install (no proliferating pythons plus rc scripts etc.), even if it isn't bleeding edge in terms of release numbers... also, on the whole SuSE stability is v. good i think cheers, Garry On 3 Oct 2001, at 13:33, seb bacon wrote: From: seb bacon <seb@jamkit.com> To: Julián Muñoz Domínguez <jmunoz@softhome.net> Copies to: zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] Better unix distrib for zope ?? Date sent: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 13:33:12 +0100
* Julián Muñoz Domínguez <jmunoz@softhome.net> [011003 12:35]:
I want to have a really stable server on the net (for running zope), where I can upgrade without having to upgrade anything. I would like to have your opinion about (all oriented to Zope):
One of the nice things about Zope is that it doesn't have any dependencies outside the standard libraries. I've never had any problems compiling it on any platform. It's also very self-contained; apart from some little things like start and stop scripts, there's little a distribution package will offer you over a source install, IMO.
seb
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
+-------------------------------------------+ Garry Steedman mailto:gs@styrax.com Styrax Associates http://www.styrax.com/ "The Good Man has no shape." +-------------------------------------------+
On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, Julián Muñoz Domínguez wrote:
I am very_very_very bored with the "politics" beside the rpm based distribuition (redhat, mandrake), which made impossible to to not be updating anything at any minute of the day (distributions that creates any kind of dependencies based on librairies, on anything).
I think that you're probably seeing two problems intersecing, but not seeing the root cause. Constant updating on a server should only be done when there is a need for an upgrade based on required features or security. Upgrades ever few weeks based on security is pretty normal. And doing those upgrades (if they apply to your system) is the job of a system administrator. It's boring, but it's part of the job. Failure to do that will mean that your system will be vulnerable. As to the complexity of upgrades. I'd say that the RPM based distrubtions don't do major upgrades well (ie 6-7), and that minor number upgrades aren't much better (6.1-6.2), but for thier normal security patches, it's often quite simple and conflict and dependency issues won't present themselves there.
I want to have a really stable server on the net (for running zope), where I can upgrade without having to upgrade anything. I would like to have your opinion about (all oriented to Zope):
Debian Suse FreeBSD
This isn't really your problem so it won't make the solution any easier. At home I use Debian, at work, Red Hat. Yes, upgrades and whatnot are easier on Debian, but everything has its tradeoffs (ie Debian's Python and Zope packages are ancient). If you want the newest and you don't want packages, nothing is stopping you from building it all yourself in /usr/local/ or for that matter, rolling your own distro. But the caviot is that doing something like that is a lot of work to maintain. - Serge Wroclawski
Thank you to eveybody, I see that for now the better politic its to install Zope and python from the sources, they install very well, that is distribution independant, and it is possible to update faster, which is important now because in each new version there is very valuable features that are needed. Thanks to the Zope and Python developpers, it is the best winning application I've see since Linux, because it has some charecteristics that "we need" from a very long time, and no one has solved so nicely than zope !! -- __o _ \<_ (_)/(_) Saludos de Julián EA4ACL -.-
On Wed, 2001-10-03 at 07:39, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, Julián Muñoz Domínguez wrote:
I am very_very_very bored with the "politics" beside the rpm based distribuition (redhat, mandrake), which made impossible to to not be updating anything at any minute of the day (distributions that creates any kind of dependencies based on librairies, on anything).
I think that you're probably seeing two problems intersecing, but not seeing the root cause.
Constant updating on a server should only be done when there is a need for an upgrade based on required features or security.
Upgrades ever few weeks based on security is pretty normal. And doing those upgrades (if they apply to your system) is the job of a system administrator. It's boring, but it's part of the job.
Failure to do that will mean that your system will be vulnerable.
As to the complexity of upgrades. I'd say that the RPM based distrubtions don't do major upgrades well (ie 6-7), and that minor number upgrades
It depends on who, and what. For example, I have a DEC-Alpha box that received an install of 5.0RH, and has since been manually upgraded via RPMs to 7.1+. no problems. :)
aren't much better (6.1-6.2), but for thier normal security patches, it's often quite simple and conflict and dependency issues won't present themselves there.
The use of red-carpet helps eliminate many, many dependency issues.
I want to have a really stable server on the net (for running zope), where I can upgrade without having to upgrade anything. I would like to have your opinion about (all oriented to Zope):
Ok, you *might* get some definition of stable, but that will be irrelevant, as your machine will likely be exploited, due to the failure to upgrade.
Debian Suse
uses RPM. Cheers, Bill
participants (8)
-
Andrew Kenneth Milton -
Bill Anderson -
Gabor Suveg -
Garry Steedman -
Julián Muñoz Domínguez -
Oleg Broytmann -
seb bacon -
Serge Wroclawski