A similar discussion is taking place on zope-dev and I'd like to bring that here as well. I'd like to propose that we change the Mailman policy for this list to restrict posting to subscribers only. I'm sure others will agree and others will not. Some of the recent issues I've seen are: A) I can't stop some logical extensions (.zip) which are now containing virus' from getting to the list without causing problems for those who are possibly attaching valid attachments B) We can't stop all spam - we're using 3 rbl lists to stop as much as we can; that is not good enough IMNSHO C) We can stop outside mailers from replying to the list illogically My vote is for refusing posts from non-subscriber emails. Let the beatings begin. Andrew -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700
On Fri, 2004-06-25 at 16:30, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
A similar discussion is taking place on zope-dev and I'd like to bring that here as well. I'd like to propose that we change the Mailman policy for this list to restrict posting to subscribers only. I'm sure others will agree and others will not. Some of the recent issues I've seen are: A) I can't stop some logical extensions (.zip) which are now containing virus' from getting to the list without causing problems for those who are possibly attaching valid attachments B) We can't stop all spam - we're using 3 rbl lists to stop as much as we can; that is not good enough IMNSHO C) We can stop outside mailers from replying to the list illogically My vote is for refusing posts from non-subscriber emails.
Let the beatings begin. Andrew
Do it, if a person needs to use more than one emails he can always subscribe for each, and throw away one of them. IMHO Jerry
On Fri, Jun 25, 2004 at 10:30:08AM -0400, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
A similar discussion is taking place on zope-dev and I'd like to bring that here as well. I'd like to propose that we change the Mailman policy for this list to restrict posting to subscribers only. I'm sure others will agree and others will not.
+1 on restring to subscriber only. If you want to add some blacklists, I'll advise http://cbl.abuseat.org/ I use a procmail and spamassassin with bogus-virus-warnings.cf to filter out (bogus) virus warnings. It caught all the bogus virus warnings that were send to the zope mailinglists for me. See: http://www.timj.co.uk/linux/bogus-virus-warnings.cf (there is also a pure procmail and postfix derivative available). Regards, Pieter
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:30:55 +0200, PieterB <pieterb@gewis.nl> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 25, 2004 at 10:30:08AM -0400, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
A similar discussion is taking place on zope-dev and I'd like to bring that here as well. I'd like to propose that we change the Mailman policy for this list to restrict posting to subscribers only. I'm sure others will agree and others will not.
+1 on restring to subscriber only. If you want to add some blacklists, I'll advise http://cbl.abuseat.org/
Why would we need blacklists if we're restricting posts based on subscription? Zac
+1 on restring to subscriber only. If you want to add some blacklists, I'll advise http://cbl.abuseat.org/
Why would we need blacklists if we're restricting posts based on subscription?
Very simple: The blacklists operate at the Postfix level. The checks to see who is subscribed and who is not operate at the Mailman level. Mailman is, err, very resource intensive. Any mail that can be rejected by Postfix and thus never reaches Mailman is a big win. Andrew and I saw that yestrday when we tweaked some settings. jens
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
+1 on restring to subscriber only. If you want to add some blacklists, I'll advise http://cbl.abuseat.org/
Why would we need blacklists if we're restricting posts based on subscription?
Very simple: The blacklists operate at the Postfix level. The checks to see who is subscribed and who is not operate at the Mailman level. Mailman is, err, very resource intensive. Any mail that can be rejected by Postfix and thus never reaches Mailman is a big win. Andrew and I saw that yestrday when we tweaked some settings.
jens
We handle as much at the MTA lvl as possible - not doing this will make the server unuseable. Regardless of the posting policy, we will continue this (as Jens points out). Andrew -- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700
How would this effect people who read this list through gmane? -- S i x F e e t U p | "Nowhere to go but open-source" Silicon Valley: +1 (650) 401-8579 | Midwest: +1 (317) 861-5948 Toll-Free: 1-866-SIX-FEET mailto:calvin@sixfeetup.com http://www.sixfeetup.com | Zope Hosting from $19.95/month
I don't have a problem with restricting posts to subscribers, and if it cuts down on the spam... go for it! Jonathan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Sawyers" <andrew@zope.com> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: June 25, 2004 10:30 AM Subject: [Zope] Restricting Posts to Subscribers
A similar discussion is taking place on zope-dev and I'd like to bring that here as well. I'd like to propose that we change the Mailman policy for this list to restrict posting to subscribers only. I'm sure others will agree and others will not. Some of the recent issues I've seen are: A) I can't stop some logical extensions (.zip) which are now containing virus' from getting to the list without causing problems for those who are possibly attaching valid attachments B) We can't stop all spam - we're using 3 rbl lists to stop as much as we can; that is not good enough IMNSHO C) We can stop outside mailers from replying to the list illogically My vote is for refusing posts from non-subscriber emails.
Let the beatings begin. Andrew
-- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
My vote is for refusing posts from non-subscriber emails.
+10 And whoever needs to post from more than one address can easily subscribe with any other address they need and use the delivery options to prevent getting multiple emails. Easy as pie. jens
What about us GMane users? This method of participation is actually reccommended as perferred for all Plone lists. And no wonder imho - news is far superior to mail for participating in high traffic forums! Other posters have raised similar concerns. Unrelated - have you tried grey-listing also? http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/ Andrew Sawyers wrote:
A similar discussion is taking place on zope-dev and I'd like to bring that here as well. I'd like to propose that we change the Mailman policy for this list to restrict posting to subscribers only. I'm sure others will agree and others will not. Some of the recent issues I've seen are: A) I can't stop some logical extensions (.zip) which are now containing virus' from getting to the list without causing problems for those who are possibly attaching valid attachments B) We can't stop all spam - we're using 3 rbl lists to stop as much as we can; that is not good enough IMNSHO C) We can stop outside mailers from replying to the list illogically My vote is for refusing posts from non-subscriber emails.
Let the beatings begin. Andrew
Members only posting has been restricted since Friday, late evening (or so says Ken 'I'm evil, so don't mess with me' Manheimer). We are still doing as much at the MTA as possible; but the lists will require membership to post. It's my understanding GMane is not a problem in posting to restricted lists. Andrew Nick Bower wrote:
What about us GMane users? This method of participation is actually reccommended as perferred for all Plone lists. And no wonder imho - news is far superior to mail for participating in high traffic forums!
Other posters have raised similar concerns.
Unrelated - have you tried grey-listing also?
http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/
Andrew Sawyers wrote:
A similar discussion is taking place on zope-dev and I'd like to bring that here as well. I'd like to propose that we change the Mailman policy for this list to restrict posting to subscribers only. I'm sure others will agree and others will not. Some of the recent issues I've seen are: A) I can't stop some logical extensions (.zip) which are now containing virus' from getting to the list without causing problems for those who are possibly attaching valid attachments B) We can't stop all spam - we're using 3 rbl lists to stop as much as we can; that is not good enough IMNSHO C) We can stop outside mailers from replying to the list illogically My vote is for refusing posts from non-subscriber emails.
Let the beatings begin. Andrew
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
-- Zope Corporation Software Engineer (540) 361-1700
Nick Bower <nicholas.bower@jrc.it> writes:
What about us GMane users? This method of participation is actually reccommended as perferred for all Plone lists. And no wonder imho - news is far superior to mail for participating in high traffic forums!
I agree that reading list traffic via news is a major boon - particularly for high volume lists. The nice thing is that your very posting appears to demonstrate that posting via gmane is not a problem. I put the subscriber- only restriction in place friday evening (and posted a followup to zope-announce indicating so). If your posting was, in fact, via gmane, then the subscribe-only posting restriction and gmane posting can coexist nicely - it's not a problem. Now, i'm not sure why it works. It could be that you have configure your news setup so your messages are attributed with your/an email address that is a subscriber to the list. Or it could be that all messages coming from gmane are accepted because gmane is a subscriber. Dunno. Each has advantages and disadvantages - but both are quite acceptable.
Other posters have raised similar concerns.
Unrelated - have you tried grey-listing also?
That does look like a pretty nice, and easy, win. I'll have to leave it to the folks managing the smtp infrastructure on the system to determine whether it fits well. Ken Manheimer klm@zope.com (posting via gmane)
1. I posted the article to which this is a followup via gmane, and it passed subscriber-only posting restriction. No doubt left. Yay! 2. It looks like *any* article posted (and confirmed) via gmane passes the subscriber-only posting restriction. This leads me to believe that mailman considers the messages as coming from the gmane subscriber. While it's great that we *can* post via gmane, it sucks that some spammers seem to have figured out that they could post that way, and are doing so. Fortunately, GMane marks items it recognizes as spam by crossposting (or appearing to crosspost) them to the gmane.spam.detected group. (GMane rocks.) Andrew is going to look at including an zope.org MTA rule which omits messages marked this way, to filter them out. I can always add a mailman spam filter rule which keys on this cue, if that's not feasible. One way or another, we should be able to close this hole, and have cleaner list traffic without sacrificing gmane posting access - yay! Ken klm@zope.com
Hi, Ken Manheimer wrote:
Nick Bower <nicholas.bower@jrc.it> writes:
Unrelated - have you tried grey-listing also?
That does look like a pretty nice, and easy, win. I'll have to leave it to the folks managing the smtp infrastructure on the system to determine whether it fits well.
Ken Manheimer klm@zope.com (posting via gmane)
i use greylisting since 10 days on our mail server and i got very good results and no complains till yet. From all mails, that are not allowed through e.g. SMTP AUTH or coming from the LAN, i get the following statistics: Of 72401 items that were initially greylisted: - 2431 ( 3.4%) became whitelisted - 69970 ( 96.6%) expired from the greylist I use http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/greylistd (a python daemon) on FreeBSD with exim4 Ciao, Jochen -- -------------------------------------------------- Jochen Knuth WebMaster http://www.ipro.de IPRO GmbH Phone ++49-7152-93330 Steinbeisstr. 6 Fax ++49-7152-933340 71229 Leonberg EMail: J.Knuth@ipro.de
participants (10)
-
Andrew Sawyers -
Calvin Hendryx-Parker -
Jens Vagelpohl -
Jerome R. Westrick -
Jochen Knuth -
Jonathan Hobbs -
Ken Manheimer -
Nick Bower -
PieterB -
Zac Bir