Hi, I a kind of biginnerwith Zope. I'm still reading books and documentation. I'm tring to do something and the Zope help system doesn't help me at all. The problem is with all those objects, without any help for them. For example, I wanted to use "REQUEST.SESSION" but I don't know what kind of object it is, what methods does it have. Again, the same problem with "ZClass". On the other part I use (as I saw in an example) "manage_editProperties" method, where is it documented? I don't like at all this BLIND PROGRAMMING! Do you? Thanks in advance, Rares _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
you say you are still reading books and documentation. if that is so, why don't you finish reading the documentation? any zope book (if you are really reading one of them) will tell you about these things. jens On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 05:40 , Rares Vernica wrote:
Hi,
I a kind of biginnerwith Zope. I'm still reading books and documentation. I'm tring to do something and the Zope help system doesn't help me at all. The problem is with all those objects, without any help for them. For example, I wanted to use "REQUEST.SESSION" but I don't know what kind of object it is, what methods does it have. Again, the same problem with "ZClass". On the other part I use (as I saw in an example) "manage_editProperties" method, where is it documented? I don't like at all this BLIND PROGRAMMING! Do you?
Thanks in advance, Rares
you say you are still reading books and documentation. if that is so, why don't you finish reading the documentation? any zope book (if you are really reading one of them) will tell you about these things.
This is not a very helpful response, in my opinion. I'm a relative newbie to Zope myself and I find it difficult to locate and navigate simple API documentation. Yes, there's this: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/ZopeBook/AppendixB.stx But please tell me how someone can quickly scratch this itch, "What are the attributes of REQUEST.SESSION?" Where's an index to the API reference? Compare the usability of the above to this: http://www.python.org/doc/current/modindex.html In addition, as far as I can tell, Zope lacks the easy interactive/introspection of Python. Of course, I'm still learning and I invite and encourage you to show me the error of my ways. Cheers, // mark -
On Mon, 5 Aug 2002, Mark McEahern wrote:
Where's an index to the API reference? Compare the usability of the above to this:
Come on, what about the "Help!" button in the ZMI? This allows instant access and searching for the API reference. OTOH REQUEST.SESSION isn't listed! David
On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 12:40:54PM +0300, Rares Vernica wrote:
For example, I wanted to use "REQUEST.SESSION" but I don't know what kind of object it is, what methods does it have. Again, the same problem with "ZClass". On the other part I use (as I saw in an example) "manage_editProperties" method, where is it documented? I don't like at all this BLIND PROGRAMMING! Do you?
If I search the Zope help for 'session', one of the topics returned is titled "Session API". No idea if that's what you're looking for or not. The ultimate (not necessarily the best, but certainly an ever-present option) source of documentation is in the Python sources to Zope. At least on a Unix server, a command something like: $ find . -type f -exec grep -il request.session {} \; | less ./Products/Sessions/dtml/manageDataManager.dtml ./Products/Transience/help/TransienceInterfaces.pyc ./Products/Transience/help/TransienceInterfaces.py (and that's not the best find syntax, but it works) given from the Zope lib/python directory can be helpful in tracking down poorly-indexed documentation. As a side note, you may find an easier time with MaxM's Easy Product code as an alternative to ZClasses. http://www.zope.org/Members/maxm/HowTo/easyProduct -- Mike Renfro / R&D Engineer, Center for Manufacturing Research, 931 372-3601 / Tennessee Technological University -- renfro@tntech.edu
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 05 August 2002 05:40 am, Rares Vernica wrote:
Hi, Hello.... I'm a kind of beginner with Zope. Me, too. I'm still reading books and documentation. You will even after you're not a beginner! :-) I'm tring to do something and the Zope help system doesn't help me at all. It's so dense that you may have missed something. For instance, there's a section on forms (very basic concept type stuff) that I missed for a long time...in the Zope Book... The problem is with all those objects, without any help for them. For example, I wanted to use "REQUEST.SESSION" but I don't know what kind The way I'm figuring this out is to play with it in Zope. I haven't quite figured out what a request (lowercase here...) is, but I think it's all the information that is passed back and forth to and from your web browser to the web server and back. The REQUEST object simply puts all of this information into one place. Then, you can get to it. Like the Zope Book demonstrates, if you just do <dtml-var REQUEST> you'll see what's in the REQUEST object (and in the request). If you want to pull out certain information, you can do, for example, <dtml-var REQUEST.authenticated_user>, which should tell you your login name, if you're just using the view tab of the ZMI...I agree that the REQUEST object isn't very well documented. It's there, but no examples, or few examples...
of object it is, what methods does it have. Again, the same problem with "ZClass". On the other part I use (as I saw in an example) "manage_editProperties" method, where is it documented? I don't like at all this BLIND PROGRAMMING! Do you? Nope. Free software has a problem that Documentation is typically lacking. I can't say too much, as I'm not a developer or a documenter. ;-)
HTH Russell - -- Linux -- the OS for the Renaissance Man -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9TnGbAqKGrvVshJQRAtwmAKCnrPfKxStAvsQwsdMTvxE845TWcgCgsBfK OamXB3QP2zFs1vflq9xt7SI= =8axf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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I don't like at all this BLIND PROGRAMMING! Do you?
Did I also mention Zope Zen? It sounds all cutesy and such, but it's real. There's a part where you just have to accept things on a certain level. The REQUEST is one of those things. There's other stuff, too, I'm sure...but I haven't gotten there yet. Recently one of the Zope gods mentioned that he was surprised that people seemed to be less interested in how to get stuff working quickly, and more interested in how things worked (or something to the effect). People do want to know the nuts and bolts, rather than ....well, here's the quote from Chris McDonough: "The original aim of the Zope Book was to provide "instant gratification" to its reads by way of introducing simple applications straight away. But I've found that, by far, the people who are reading and commenting on the book want more often to know *why* something is the way it is than how to do it once by example." This is from a post of his from 7/26/02... HTH... Russell - -- Linux -- the OS for the Renaissance Man -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9TnTkAqKGrvVshJQRAtYcAJ92MmzHC9YPx6IdUjovc7dNWXIWGwCgrdLm XAQlAoTY3ermeKVEv1bURfk= =pU5s -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Rares Vernica writes:
I a kind of biginnerwith Zope. I'm still reading books and documentation. I'm tring to do something and the Zope help system doesn't help me at all. The problem is with all those objects, without any help for them. For example, I wanted to use "REQUEST.SESSION" but I don't know what kind of object it is, what methods does it have. Again, the same problem with "ZClass". On the other part I use (as I saw in an example) "manage_editProperties" method, where is it documented? I don't like at all this BLIND PROGRAMMING! Do you? Did you try "search"?
Do you know DocFinder/DocFinderEverywhere? Dieter
participants (8)
-
Chris Withers -
DA Loeffler -
Dieter Maurer -
Jens Vagelpohl -
Mark McEahern -
Mike Renfro -
Rares Vernica -
Russell Hires