My German's a little rusty, but it looks like this person doesn't want to get mail from me. Since I sent it to zope.org, that would mean they want off the list. Any bilingual folks here who can help? --- Gostnerr <GostnerR@t-systems.com> wrote:
Sehr geehrte(r) Mailsender(In), ich bin nicht mehr im Hause T-Systems besch�ftigt. Bitte wenden Sie sich an Herrn Czerwinski Michael (06151 - 886-0) oder an Herrn Gr�newald Matthias (06151 - 886-0) Bitte beachten Sie auch, dass diese Email nicht weitergeleitet wird. Mit freundlichen Gr�ssen Roswitha Gostner
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On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 13:16, Sophia Grimm wrote:
My German's a little rusty, but it looks like this person doesn't want to get mail from me.
Unfortunately, that's not the problem. The software that runs this list is different than most other mail software. It puts the *poster* e-mail address as the address to reply to instead of its own. This means that any subscribers who are bouncing messages or running an auto-responder are flooding list contributers with bogus e-mail. It gets a lot worse when someone's got a transient delivery error... those can easily generate a dozen or more bounce messages per post. This is something of a religious issue in the sysadmin community and not likely to get resolved on this list. There are several ways the problem *could* be fixed but none are likely to be comprehensive or work to everyone's satisfaction. So this is what we've got. FWIW, Dylan
Dylan Reinhardt wrote:
Unfortunately, that's not the problem. The software that runs this list is different than most other mail software. It puts the *poster* e-mail address as the address to reply to instead of its own. This means that any subscribers who are bouncing messages or running an auto-responder are flooding list contributers with bogus e-mail. It gets a lot worse when someone's got a transient delivery error... those can easily generate a dozen or more bounce messages per post.
Ehhh, not exactly. The list manager adds a Reply-To header, that header is only ment for MUAs. Is it dumb that they add that header? Yes, it sure is. Will it change? Probably not, like you said, dogma. But, that header has no effect on bounces or transient delivery errors from most MTAs. Unless the MTA is buggy, the envelope sender is the only address it will ever use for bounces, and that happens to be set to a bounce catcher like it should be (although using VERPs is far less error prone). Auto-responders OTOH are almost always broken by design, and cause no end of annoyance. Interestingly enough, if the list owner removed the Reply-To header from this list, the auto-responder *might* do the right thing and use the envelope sender instead (there's an equally likely chance it'd just use the From: header thanks to the number of broken auto-responders out there) the net effect of which would be the bounce manager would (hopefully) end up unsubcribing the idiot with the broken auto-responder. At the very least it might mean a less annoying backscatter for the list users. -- Jamie Heilman http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/ "Paranoia is a disease unto itself, and may I add, the person standing next to you may not be who they appear to be, so take precaution." -Sathington Willoughby
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 13:58, Jamie Heilman wrote:
Unless the MTA is buggy, the envelope sender is the only address it will ever use for bounces, and that happens to be set to a bounce catcher like it should be
I was trying to avoid going into detail about how all of this is supposed to work and may have over-simplified as a result. But how it is supposed to work is clearly at odds with how it *does* work in certain cases. Whether or not I *should* receive bounce messages from posting to the list, I have received them. As they say, in theory there should be no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there usually is. :-) Dylan
Abwesenheitsnotiz: Literally translated: "Absence Notice" The Dude's on vacation... That's all On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 22:37, Dylan Reinhardt wrote:
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 13:16, Sophia Grimm wrote:
My German's a little rusty, but it looks like this person doesn't want to get mail from me.
Unfortunately, that's not the problem. The software that runs this list is different than most other mail software. It puts the *poster* e-mail address as the address to reply to instead of its own. This means that any subscribers who are bouncing messages or running an auto-responder are flooding list contributers with bogus e-mail. It gets a lot worse when someone's got a transient delivery error... those can easily generate a dozen or more bounce messages per post.
This is something of a religious issue in the sysadmin community and not likely to get resolved on this list. There are several ways the problem *could* be fixed but none are likely to be comprehensive or work to everyone's satisfaction. So this is what we've got.
FWIW,
Dylan
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Nope it's notice that the person is nolonger employed at the company and the emails will not be forwarded! On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 22:16, Sophia Grimm wrote:
My German's a little rusty, but it looks like this person doesn't want to get mail from me. Since I sent it to zope.org, that would mean they want off the list. Any bilingual folks here who can help?
--- Gostnerr <GostnerR@t-systems.com> wrote:
Sehr geehrte(r) Mailsender(In), ich bin nicht mehr im Hause T-Systems beschäftigt. Bitte wenden Sie sich an Herrn Czerwinski Michael (06151 - 886-0) oder an Herrn Grünewald Matthias (06151 - 886-0) Bitte beachten Sie auch, dass diese Email nicht weitergeleitet wird. Mit freundlichen Grüssen Roswitha Gostner
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
participants (4)
-
Dylan Reinhardt -
Jamie Heilman -
Jerry Westrick -
Sophia Grimm