Hey folks- Has anybody here had to go through the experience of selling Zope (and Python) to your own organization over another technology (esp. Perl/CGI)? At Findlaw, we are largely an open-source shop (though, we find our selves still using NT/IIS for a few reasons), and the folks we have all use Perl. I've tried to extoll the virtues of Python to the team members, but usually the response is "Bah, Perl works, I know it, and I don't want to learn something new". I could take the dictatorial stance and say 'learn it', but thats not my style. I'd rather "sell it" to the folks so that we have buy in and enthusiasm. Zope seems like it could be a big part of that "sales pitch". That is, I'd like to be able to sit down with someone and show them how to write a "send mail to the webmasters" page without having to learn much Python at all. Has anyone had any success doing this? Has anyone used Zope as a way to get people using Python? What sort of resistance have people experienced in moving from Perl/CGI to Zope? Is performance ever cited as an objection? Having to learn a new language? The newness of Zope and Python? The relative lack of popularity of Python and Zope? Open-sourcedness? Single-sourcedness (of Zope), even if open source? Licensing issues (particularily the "logo" license requirement)? Apparent complexity? -Gabe
On Mon, Jan 18, 1999 at 05:04:38PM -0800, Gabe Wachob wrote: ,----- | Hey folks- | Has anybody here had to go through the experience of selling Zope | (and Python) to your own organization over another technology (esp. | Perl/CGI)? At Findlaw, we are largely an open-source shop (though, we | find our selves still using NT/IIS for a few reasons), and the folks we | have all use Perl. I've tried to extoll the virtues of Python to the | team members, but usually the response is "Bah, Perl works, I know it, | and I don't want to learn something new". Selling python over perl can be difficult because people know perl, and python doesn't provide *functionality* that perl does not have. I believe that python is a much cleaner, much more readable and easier to maintain language... but if you go down that road you'll likely just get into a holy war. (Ever tried to get an emacs person to use vi?) | Zope seems like it could be a big part of that "sales pitch". That | is, I'd like to be able to sit down with someone and show them how to | write a "send mail to the webmasters" page without having to learn much | Python at all. Has anyone had any success doing this? Has anyone used | Zope as a way to get people using Python? [stuff deleted] | `----- I think Zope is a much easier sale than python itself. DC themselves bill Zope as more of an application server sort of tool (like Cold Fusion) than a "CGI" tool. I don't know what the Cold Fusion language looks like, but I don't think it's perl or python. Right now, everyone is trying to find ways to bring applications to the web faster. Sure, you can roll your own with perl/CGI or python/CGI, but I think more people will want libraries and tools that provide more of the basic functionality you need. And *that's* where you can really sell Zope. If people aren't as keen on python, just stress all of the great things Zope does for you: object database with an easy way to call methods and access subobjects through the web, already built web-based management interface, high-level UI structures like "tree", powerful templates that utilize acquisition, etc. Plus, I think it is a real benefit that Zope is open source. Just from reading this list, I can see that there is a growing community of contributors that can help Zope acquire more features faster than its commercial competitors. I think that one can sell Zope to a perl shop easier than selling them python... and once they get into Zope, then they'll start learning python and probably won't turn back. Kevin -- Kevin Dangoor kid@ans.net / 734-214-7349
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Gabe Wachob -
Kevin Dangoor