win32 - best DBMS with Zope?
Having read a bit, I concluded the open source DBMS to use with Zope was mySQL. Easier said than done under win32, I've discovered. Am I correct in thinking mySQL is the way to go? How about using an ODBC adapter to connect to mySQL? Possible? Advisable? Thank you.
After having spent some time doing exactly that, I would say it works, its not quite simple but definitely the way to go. For e.g. for my site I used a MySQL db as user source, and not being an expert at either python and DTML it was tought to bring that about, but I simply modified mysqluserfolder for my purposes and it works beutifully. ZMySQLDA also performs nicely although I have observed some speed issues on Win2k, but fortunately they are not that bad. I tried to use Access (came with Office, hence gave a shot) and couldnt get anywhere. Also running Postgresql with cygwin proved to be a real pain. Mebbe if I knew Zope or python better it would have been easier but, given the fact that MySQL now ships with InnoDB the only thing lacking is sub-queries, full foreign key support, row-level locking (am not sure about that, but its in the docs) and trigger support. But all of these probs can be worked around, with a little bit of fancy SQL. I would certainly back MySQL. just my $0.02 AM Day Irmiter wrote:
Having read a bit, I concluded the open source DBMS to use with Zope was mySQL. Easier said than done under win32, I've discovered.
Am I correct in thinking mySQL is the way to go? How about using an ODBC adapter to connect to mySQL? Possible? Advisable?
Thank you.
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On Win2k I found that the size of the db expands way to rapidly for my comfort. Could it be a config problem? I am using Zope 2.5 on Win2k sp2. AM Chris Withers wrote:
Day Irmiter wrote:
Having read a bit, I concluded the open source DBMS to use with Zope was mySQL. Easier said than done under win32, I've discovered.
I suspect you don't need a RDBMS at all.
Why not just use ZODB?
cheers,
Chris
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-- ================================================================== Aseem Mohanty Neurobehavioral Systems Inc, 828 San Pablo Ave, Albany, CA 94706 (R) 510 7696011 (M) 510 3014871 (O) 510 5279231 ================================================================== "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped right there!!" -- Steve Gonedes ==================================================================
Aseem Mohanty wrote:
On Win2k I found that the size of the db expands way to rapidly for my comfort. Could it be a config problem? I am using Zope 2.5 on Win2k sp2. AM
I would suggest your application logic was at fault ;-) cheers, Chris
Could the cheerful Chris direct the humble users to a tutorial showing how to use the ZODB for tasks normally solved with a RDMBS? The also cheering \Oliver
-----Original Message----- From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Chris Withers Sent: 17. juni 2002 23:47 To: Aseem Mohanty Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] win32 - best DBMS with Zope?
Aseem Mohanty wrote:
On Win2k I found that the size of the db expands way to rapidly for my comfort. Could it be a config problem? I am using Zope 2.5 on Win2k sp2. AM
I would suggest your application logic was at fault ;-)
cheers,
Chris
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Oliver Marx wrote:
Could the cheerful Chris direct the humble users to a tutorial showing how to use the ZODB for tasks normally solved with a RDMBS?
What would you like demonstrated? Most of the joy of using ZODC is that you're not restricted by the limitations of SQL. cheers, Chris
Howdy, A while ago there was a thread with ZODB and 'external' RDB (MySQL, etc.) usage comparisons. Gist was that what would be most efficient overall depended on the nature of the data and how it was used/accessed/manipulated. In general I recall reading this: If data changes frequently/constantly, RDB 'outside' zope was said to be better. If data relatively static, ZODB was said to be better. Reason given for difference was something to do with ZODB overhead/bloating of data.fs/something like that when data is frequently changed. Any further clarifications welcomed... ;-) John S. --- Oliver Marx <oliver@tekk.dk> wrote:
Could the cheerful Chris direct the humble users to a tutorial showing how to use the ZODB for tasks normally solved with a RDMBS?
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re: bloating of data.fs.... does it have something to do with the fact that the ZODB transactions are undoable.. until db packing?? TIA AM John Schinnerer wrote:
Howdy,
A while ago there was a thread with ZODB and 'external' RDB (MySQL, etc.) usage comparisons. Gist was that what would be most efficient overall depended on the nature of the data and how it was used/accessed/manipulated. In general I recall reading this:
If data changes frequently/constantly, RDB 'outside' zope was said to be better.
If data relatively static, ZODB was said to be better.
Reason given for difference was something to do with ZODB overhead/bloating of data.fs/something like that when data is frequently changed.
Any further clarifications welcomed... ;-)
John S.
--- Oliver Marx <oliver@tekk.dk> wrote:
Could the cheerful Chris direct the humble users to a tutorial showing how to use the ZODB for tasks normally solved with a RDMBS?
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
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-- ================================================================== Aseem Mohanty Neurobehavioral Systems Inc, 828 San Pablo Ave, Albany, CA 94706 (R) 510 7696011 (M) 510 3014871 (O) 510 5279231 ================================================================== "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped right there!!" -- Steve Gonedes ==================================================================
Aseem Mohanty wrote:
re: bloating of data.fs....
does it have something to do with the fact that the ZODB transactions are undoable.. until db packing??
Indeed. And unless you have a particular need to be able to undo any work you've ever done, packing the ZODB so it onyl contains a week's worth of transactions should be fine :-) cheers, Chris
John Schinnerer wrote:
If data changes frequently/constantly, RDB 'outside' zope was said to be better.
I wouldn't agree with that. I would say that unless you already have an external data source in a RDB, go for ZODB.
Reason given for difference was something to do with ZODB overhead/bloating of data.fs/something like that when data is frequently changed.
This will only happen if you never pack your ZODB. cheers, Chris
Why not just use ZODB?
As I understand it, Gadfly is the internally-used database manager in Zope. According to the Zope Book "Gadfly is included with Zope for demonstration purposes and small data sets. Gadfly is fast, but is not intended for large amounts of information".
It sounds like you think that all the database work is handled by Gadfly. This is completely wrong. ZODB and Gadfly are completely separate. ZODB is the object-relational database that handles all of the document storage of ZOPE, and which can be used to provide very sophisticated systems in a coherent object-oriented manner. Gadfly is an quick-and-dirty relational database, which, you're right, is not designed for large amounts of information, as it stores tables in memory. It is only used if you create a Gadfly database instance and explicitly work with it, however. ZODB definitely IS designed to handle large amounts of information. HTH, David Burton 17/06/2002 10:51:48, "Day Irmiter" <dayi@peoplepc.com> wrote:
Why not just use ZODB?
As I understand it, Gadfly is the internally-used database manager in Zope. According to the Zope Book "Gadfly is included with Zope for demonstration purposes and small data sets. Gadfly is fast, but is not intended for large amounts of information".
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"Into the abyss we stare, hoping that the abyss does not gaze so intently upon us"
----- Original Message ----- From: David Burton <eloquence@eloquent-designs.f2s.com> To: Day Irmiter <dayi@peoplepc.com>; <zope@zope.org> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 5:18 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] win32 - best DBMS with Zope?
It sounds like you think that all the database work is handled by Gadfly.
This is completely wrong.
ZODB and Gadfly are completely separate.
Thank you for this clarification.
ZODB definitely IS designed to handle large amounts of information.
This is good to hear! So maybe I don't need mySQL after all. I will make a point of learning about ZODB. I searched for it in the Zope Book but found no reference to it. I will look at the website.
HTH, David Burton
17/06/2002 10:51:48, "Day Irmiter" <dayi@peoplepc.com> wrote:
Why not just use ZODB?
As I understand it, Gadfly is the internally-used database manager in Zope. According to the Zope Book "Gadfly is included with Zope for demonstration purposes and small data sets. Gadfly is fast, but is not intended for large amounts of information".
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"Into the abyss we stare, hoping that the abyss does not gaze so intently upon us"
--On Monday, June 17, 2002 05:25 -0600 Day Irmiter <dayi@peoplepc.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: David Burton <eloquence@eloquent-designs.f2s.com> To: Day Irmiter <dayi@peoplepc.com>; <zope@zope.org> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 5:18 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] win32 - best DBMS with Zope?
It sounds like you think that all the database work is handled by Gadfly.
This is completely wrong.
ZODB and Gadfly are completely separate.
Thank you for this clarification.
ZODB definitely IS designed to handle large amounts of information.
This is good to hear! So maybe I don't need mySQL after all.
I will make a point of learning about ZODB. I searched for it in the Zope Book but found no reference to it. I will look at the website.
See http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ for two ZODB articles written by Michel Pelletier. -aj --------------------------------------------------------------------- - Andreas Jung http://www.andreas-jung.com - - EMail: andreas at andreas-jung.com - - "Life is too short to (re)write parsers" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
I will make a point of learning about ZODB. I searched for it in the Zope Book but found no reference to it. I will look at the website.
See http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ for two ZODB articles written by Michel Pelletier.
Thanks. I got them.
-aj
--------------------------------------------------------------------- - Andreas Jung http://www.andreas-jung.com - - EMail: andreas at andreas-jung.com - - "Life is too short to (re)write parsers" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Installing ZMySQLDA on Windows is not nearly so hard as some people make it out to be, but I suppose it could be easier. You do have to have MySQLdb/MySQL-python installed. There's a MySQL-python binary package for Windows and a standard Python 2.1 installation, but Zope binary packages comes with their own pre-packaged Python, so Zope never sees it. The installer doesn't let you install anywhere else, and there is no package built against Zope's Python. Furthermore I do no development work on Windows at all and cannot build any binary packages for that platform; all Windows packages I have are contributed and that is not likely to change anytime soon. -- Andy Dustman PGP: 0x930B8AB6 @ .net http://dustman.net/andy "Cogito, ergo sum." -- Rene Descartes "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam." -- Popeye
A workaround that worked for me: copy the contents of the folder : F:\Python22\Lib\site-packages (wherever your installation is) as related to the MySQL Python binary which is the directory MySQLdb and about six source files into the f:\<zope site name>\bin\lib and restart Zope. worked fine for me. AM Andy Dustman wrote:
Installing ZMySQLDA on Windows is not nearly so hard as some people make it out to be, but I suppose it could be easier. You do have to have MySQLdb/MySQL-python installed. There's a MySQL-python binary package for Windows and a standard Python 2.1 installation, but Zope binary packages comes with their own pre-packaged Python, so Zope never sees it. The installer doesn't let you install anywhere else, and there is no package built against Zope's Python. Furthermore I do no development work on Windows at all and cannot build any binary packages for that platform; all Windows packages I have are contributed and that is not likely to change anytime soon.
-- ================================================================== Aseem Mohanty Neurobehavioral Systems Inc, 828 San Pablo Ave, Albany, CA 94706 (R) 510 7696011 (M) 510 3014871 (O) 510 5279231 ================================================================== "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped right there!!" -- Steve Gonedes ==================================================================
Interesting. How can it be changed? Using the obvious: http://server/somepage?AUTHENTICATED_USER=admin still results in the correct result. I would definately like to know if there is a way a visitor can falsify their AUTHENTICATED_USER string without password cracking or breaking into the server.
-----Original Message----- From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Aseem Mohanty Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:24 AM Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] win32 - best DBMS with Zope?
A workaround that worked for me:
copy the contents of the folder :
F:\Python22\Lib\site-packages (wherever your installation is) as related to the MySQL Python binary which is the directory MySQLdb and about six source files into the
f:\<zope site name>\bin\lib
and restart Zope. worked fine for me.
AM
Andy Dustman wrote:
Installing ZMySQLDA on Windows is not nearly so hard as some people make it out to be, but I suppose it could be easier. You do have to have MySQLdb/MySQL-python installed. There's a MySQL-python binary package for Windows and a standard Python 2.1 installation, but Zope binary packages comes with their own pre-packaged Python, so Zope never sees it. The installer doesn't let you install anywhere else, and there is no package built against Zope's Python. Furthermore I do no development work on Windows at all and cannot build any binary packages for that platform; all Windows packages I have are contributed and that is not likely to change anytime soon.
-- ================================================================== Aseem Mohanty Neurobehavioral Systems Inc, 828 San Pablo Ave, Albany, CA 94706 (R) 510 7696011 (M) 510 3014871 (O) 510 5279231 ============================================================ ====== "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped right there!!" -- Steve Gonedes ==================================================================
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Actually I tried that too, but I also set up the __ac* cookies and still couldnt break in, but the Zope Bible (Bernstien, Robert & codeit dev team) says on pg 78 that we should use this as far aspossible. I havent been able to do it though. AM Charlie Reiman wrote:
Interesting. How can it be changed? Using the obvious:
http://server/somepage?AUTHENTICATED_USER=admin
still results in the correct result. I would definately like to know if there is a way a visitor can falsify their AUTHENTICATED_USER string without password cracking or breaking into the server.
-----Original Message----- From: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]On Behalf Of Aseem Mohanty Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:24 AM Cc: zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] win32 - best DBMS with Zope?
A workaround that worked for me:
copy the contents of the folder :
F:\Python22\Lib\site-packages (wherever your installation is) as related to the MySQL Python binary which is the directory MySQLdb and about six source files into the
f:\<zope site name>\bin\lib
and restart Zope. worked fine for me.
AM
Andy Dustman wrote:
Installing ZMySQLDA on Windows is not nearly so hard as some people make it out to be, but I suppose it could be easier. You do have to have MySQLdb/MySQL-python installed. There's a MySQL-python binary package for Windows and a standard Python 2.1 installation, but Zope binary packages comes with their own pre-packaged Python, so Zope never sees it. The installer doesn't let you install anywhere else, and there is no package built against Zope's Python. Furthermore I do no development work on Windows at all and cannot build any binary packages for that platform; all Windows packages I have are contributed and that is not likely to change anytime soon.
-- ================================================================== Aseem Mohanty Neurobehavioral Systems Inc, 828 San Pablo Ave, Albany, CA 94706 (R) 510 7696011 (M) 510 3014871 (O) 510 5279231 ============================================================ ====== "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped right there!!" -- Steve Gonedes ==================================================================
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-- ================================================================== Aseem Mohanty Neurobehavioral Systems Inc, 828 San Pablo Ave, Albany, CA 94706 (R) 510 7696011 (M) 510 3014871 (O) 510 5279231 ================================================================== "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped right there!!" -- Steve Gonedes ==================================================================
participants (9)
-
Andreas Jung -
Andy Dustman -
Aseem Mohanty -
Charlie Reiman -
Chris Withers -
David Burton -
Day Irmiter -
John Schinnerer -
Oliver Marx