RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope
Dear Mr boulanger, Under the suggestion of Jerry, I came to look at your contribution t the zope mailing list (I am really new at usins and experimenting ZOpe). I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database. It should be demonstrablable (at least showable into a proof of concept) within 2 weeks and be already installable and usable within 2 or 3 months. (I have obtained taoday that the date when we'll decide on the system would be postponed 2 weeks from wednesday 24/1 to wed 7/2) If I could find such a marvel, I may find the money to pay for it, at least 50000 $ to start with (this amount is a rapid guess; I may give more precise amounts we could spend in the following week) The idea is to use that combination of tools INSTEAD of buying a closed, proprietary solution (that may exist but be expensive and really har to parametrize), that NEED to be linked to a SAP ERP system. All suggestions and ideas are welcome, also on the selection criteria. (I happen to be responsible for the IT dept of the public institution that wants to buy such a tool, but be new in the place and do not yet know a lot about WF and EDM !) Soon I may be able to give you more details about the requirements. -- quoted from your mails -- I am very interested in a general, fairly full featured workflow system on top of Zope as opposed to using an external workflow product for a fundamental reason. While one could come up with a way of getting what I need with an external system, it would be messy. I need workflows to be explicit and versioned. We make use of ZODB to version content that end users generate. We don't make use of Zope's versioning but use or own hierarchical version tree which is easy to do in Zope. End users generate new workflows and revisit past workflows. The user sees this versioning as notebook pages using a scientific notebook metaphor. + also http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/endeavors/endeavors.html See also the papers and the web-based workflow thesis at: http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/endeavors/docs/papers/ It is much cleaner to use ZODB and ZPublisher to do all this instead of having a version tree in Zope and a bunch of correspondences to outside objects in an external workflow system. Thus, there is a lot of value in having a fairly general workflow system whose representation and publishing uses ZODB and ZPublisher. By the way, if there are other folks interested in such a workflow system let me know. We may just bite the bullet and build one. I have who will do most of the coding in mind.
Especially I don't. What are the deadline you may think about ? What would be the developpement and support cost you or the people you can think about may charge ? (added by Nicolas)
What will be produced is a Zope-based workflow system with a java thin client visual workflow/dataflow editor. Right now I do not have the funding but folks with resources could speak now ;-).
Here do I do it.
Thanks for your interest. Best regards, Nicolas Regards, Albert Boulanger CTO vPatch Technologies aboulanger@vpatch.com http://www.vpatch.com -- Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du Pérou 29 B-1000 Brussels
I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database. It should be demonstrablable (at least showable into a proof of concept) within 2 weeks and be already installable and usable within 2 or 3 months. (I have obtained taoday that the date when we'll decide on the system would be postponed 2 weeks from wednesday 24/1 to wed 7/2) If I could find such a marvel, I may find the money to pay for it, at least 50000 $ to start with (this amount is a rapid guess; I may give more precise amounts we could spend in the following week) The idea is to use that combination of tools INSTEAD of buying a closed, proprietary solution (that may exist but be expensive and really har to parametrize), that NEED to be linked to a SAP ERP system. All suggestions and ideas are welcome, also on the selection criteria. (I happen to be responsible for the IT dept of the public institution that wants to buy such a tool, but be new in the place and do not yet know a lot about WF and EDM !) Soon I may be able to give you more details about the requirements. I don't think there is such as system polished and ready within 2 weeks. Here are some starting points: use wftk as a basis, the open source workflow toolkit -- http://wwww.vivtek.com/wftk use openflow, a Zope based, but stalled project, http://openflow.sourceforge.net use Chautauqua, an old python based workflow system, http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~carlosm/chautauqua.html use the old UCI Endeavors workflow (java) system at http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/endeavors/endeavors.html We have not bit the bullet and built anything yet. Regards, Albert Boulanger aboulanger@vpatch.com
Dear Mr Boulanger, Thank you very much for your input.
I don't think there is such as system polished and ready within 2 weeks.
I do NOT need a polished system within 2 weeks. I need a proof of concept . The production system shoudl run in 2 or 3 months ... and could be optimized afterwards also, in order to be polished. If it is well though already this should be possible. What could you do or take in charge ? Best regards, Nicolas Pettiaux Le Samedi 20 Janvier 2001 00:51, albert boulanger a écrit :
I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database. It should be demonstrablable (at least showable into a proof of concept) within 2 weeks and be already installable and usable within 2 or 3 months. (I have obtained taoday that the date when we'll decide on the system would be postponed 2 weeks from wednesday 24/1 to wed 7/2) If I could find such a marvel, I may find the money to pay for it, at least 50000 $ to start with (this amount is a rapid guess; I may give more precise amounts we could spend in the following week)
The idea is to use that combination of tools INSTEAD of buying a closed, proprietary solution (that may exist but be expensive and really har to parametrize), that NEED to be linked to a SAP ERP system.
All suggestions and ideas are welcome, also on the selection criteria.
(I happen to be responsible for the IT dept of the public institution that wants to buy such a tool, but be new in the place and do not yet know a lot about WF and EDM !)
Soon I may be able to give you more details about the requirements.
I don't think there is such as system polished and ready within 2 weeks. Here are some starting points:
use wftk as a basis, the open source workflow toolkit -- http://wwww.vivtek.com/wftk
use openflow, a Zope based, but stalled project, http://openflow.sourceforge.net
use Chautauqua, an old python based workflow system, http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~carlosm/chautauqua.html
use the old UCI Endeavors workflow (java) system at http://www.ics.uci.edu/pub/endeavors/endeavors.html
We have not bit the bullet and built anything yet.
Regards, Albert Boulanger aboulanger@vpatch.com
-- Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du Pérou 29 B-1000 Brussels
Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:
I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database.
You could check out Amphora which should do most of what you suggest. And it is based on Zope+Postgres. the main info page is at http://www.amphora.ee/ (unfortunately in estonian only ;) but you can check out demo which is either in english or estonian (depending on your browser language settings) at https://demo.amphora.ee/amphora/classic/ password:demo and username:demo It is not completely opensource though but is available with development license. ------------- Hannu
Dear Mr Krosing, Thank you VERY much for the information. This application looks really neat, this is really going in the direction I want, and has indeed a lot of the features I am looking for. This IS the application I want to start with. My estonian is really poor (not to say, I don't understand a word), but the English help is good enough. I shall go on tomorrow morning, but for what I noticed, it matches a lot of our requirements. I shall go on with some questions and statements, to knwo more about the system. Le Dimanche 21 Janvier 2001 13:28, Hannu Krosing a �crit :
I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document management (EDM) system and a groupware email based (I have just happened to come accross aethera from the Kompany) that would be free software and preferably in Zope + Python. The WF+DEM system I am looking for need to be usable with only a browser (to be independant from the client ... that could be proprietary !), store its data into a postgresql database.
You could check out Amphora which should do most of what you suggest. And it is based on Zope+Postgres.
the main info page is at http://www.amphora.ee/ (unfortunately in estonian only ;)
but you can check out demo which is either in english or estonian (depending on your browser language settings) at https://demo.amphora.ee/amphora/classic/ password:demo and username:demo
I did. Working good. I appreciate the fact that it is certified.
It is not completely opensource though but is available with development license.
Q1/ What is not open-source ? Q2/ What could be done to have the system open-sourced ? (We are ready to pay for such a system) Q3/ What is a developpement license ? Q4/ Which parts are proprietary ? I would understand if the "special" clients related to (I quote) "Special software exists for easy synchronisation with MS Outlook and MS Windows file system." and "The special Windows client is built using Borland Delphi, uses PGP for encryption/decryption and integrates Mozilla toolkit for electronic signatures. " would be proprietary, provided their protocol be open and fully described." be proprietary. We could pay for such licenses ... if the cost of the system is comparable to other similar systems. Q5/ Would you be ready for a contract to improve and further develop the system, as well as provide a maintenance for 3 to 5 years ? Q6/ I need to have a setup ready and if possible in English (and French and Dutch if possible but I have the translatros from English) within a week. Could this be possible ? Q7/ How do I have to proceed to set the system up (I can have local help with Zope + Postgresql + python if I do not succeed personnally, but I need a "procedure") = do this and this to install and configure the system, as well as some fake data. Q8/ What is your isntalled base ? (which are your clients) Are there any public institution your client (governments, large companies ...) Q9/ What kind of company are you ? How many people ? Which specific competences ? What is you financial backing (please understand that I would need to go through a public market, for which I would need answers to these questions plus many other !) Q10/ How many simultaneous client does the system stand ? Q11/ What is a reasonable system (I mean hardware) to run the system on, knowing that we could have about 50 users to start with in about 2 to 3 months, plus 200 users in about 6 months and about 500 in a year). We are ready to start with a small system and upgrade the hardware later on. Q12/ The system works with OUtlook. Does it also work with Outlook Express ? (that has less features than outlook, for example NO calendar as far as I know) Q13/ Are all the protocols, formats, file formats ... open and fully descibed (there is a law proposal that is supposed to get through very soon in Belgium that make it compulsory for public administration to use open format and protocols, that is formats and protocols that are 100 % described in public understandable document, for which a free implementation can be made, and that are deposited by a public institution) Q14/ As an open-source system (you say nearly) is it easily extendible in Zope and Python ? Q15/ Can it easily be linked with a LDAP directory service to provide the contacts coordinates ? (There is a ZOPE to LDAP system) Q16/ Can the project management system be extended to provide PERT and GANTT chart ? Q17/ How can a standard flow for a process be described and checked : I mean a way to trace for a project that a standard acceptation process has been followed for example ? Q18/ What about signatures and authentications of actions by specific people ? Q19/ Could you do as much as possible to let me set up a demonstration ? Q20/ Does the system run on Debian Potato ? THis is the server we run on, because we find debian management is the easiest and that tests are better done on Debian that on other systems (No wonder VA Linux has choosen Debain !) We could use other if absolutely needed. Q21/ What would you charge for such a system, how do you charge - by named user, by site, ... ? Q22/ Would you or any English speaker be able to come to Brussels soon ? Q23/ Would you be ready to cooperate with a local system integrator could would provide local help and support ? I am asking that many questions because 1/ I find your system wonderful 2/ I am in a hurry (the selection meeting was planned for Wednesday but is a little postponed ) 3/ I need to have a demonstration system as well as a qualification session soon. Hoping to read you soon. Best regards, Nicolas Pettiaux -- Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P�rou 29 B-1000 Brussels
participants (3)
-
albert boulanger -
Hannu Krosing -
Nicolas Pettiaux