only know HTML; how easy to learn Zope?
I only know HTML. No programming. I found Learning Python very difficult. But I do (just about!) manage to run FreeBSD :-) How hard is it for non-programmers to learn Zope? Would PHP be easier? How many of you guys graduated from Python to Zope? If I only know HTML can I realistically learn anything beyond the very basics of Zope or am I looking at learning Pyhton in parallel? Should I start with the Zope Book? Should I start learning python at the same time? If Learning Python was hard, which book do you recommend? ======================== http://www.wanwood.co.uk paul@wanwood.co.uk The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck is the day Microsoft starts making vacuum cleaners. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through UK Online webmail
Hi Paul, I'm not a developer at all.... just a hack that spends lots of time in front my machine.... Learning Zope hasnt been easy considering the documentation isnt very good. But using the yahoo site for searching the archives is quite fruitfull..... Though Im not nearly up to speed on it, I can say that I can build an entire site on zope and have done... using my bare essentials of 'try it, break it, try it again'. Cant say if PHP is easier or not.... you just gotta have the gusto and jump in. Paul Zwarts Paul Newman wrote:
I only know HTML. No programming. I found Learning Python very difficult. But I do (just about!) manage to run FreeBSD :-)
How hard is it for non-programmers to learn Zope? Would PHP be easier? How many of you guys graduated from Python to Zope? If I only know HTML can I realistically learn anything beyond the very basics of Zope or am I looking at learning Pyhton in parallel?
Should I start with the Zope Book? Should I start learning python at the same time? If Learning Python was hard, which book do you recommend?
======================== http://www.wanwood.co.uk paul@wanwood.co.uk
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck is the day Microsoft starts making vacuum cleaners.
------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through UK Online webmail
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
I've got a few books now about Python. The best one is definitly "The Quick Python Book" for beginners. It helps to know some programming, but the english in this book is really really good. The guys Daryl Harms and Kenneth McDonald know not only Python but how to express themselfs in a good fluent and easy english. Despite the "ease" of this book, it doesn't make you feel silly like the "...for dummies". ISBN 1-884777-74-0 For juicy content, the Python Essential Reference is good and I am not alone to think so apparently. ISBN 0-7357-0901-7 No, PHP is not easier. Well it is in a sense compared to ASP for example. PHP people tend to fins Zope too difficult, but that is just because there used to the "baby approach" of PHP. Print out the Learning Zope book and read it. Page by page. But do this at the same time as you learn python and it will be easier to understand DTML (which you'll find yourself in front of a lot in the future) Good luck!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Newman" <newman@ukonline.co.uk> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: [Zope] only know HTML; how easy to learn Zope?
I only know HTML. No programming. I found Learning Python very difficult. But I do (just about!) manage to run FreeBSD :-)
How hard is it for non-programmers to learn Zope? Would PHP be easier? How many of you guys graduated from Python to Zope? If I only know HTML can I realistically learn anything beyond the very basics of Zope or am I looking at learning Pyhton in parallel?
Should I start with the Zope Book? Should I start learning python at the same time? If Learning Python was hard, which book do you recommend?
======================== http://www.wanwood.co.uk paul@wanwood.co.uk
The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck is the day Microsoft starts making vacuum cleaners.
------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through UK Online webmail
_______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Paul Newman wrote:
I only know HTML. No programming. I found Learning Python very difficult. But I do (just about!) manage to run FreeBSD :-)
How hard is it for non-programmers to learn Zope? Would PHP be easier? How many of you guys graduated from Python to Zope? If I only know HTML can I realistically learn anything beyond the very basics of Zope or am I looking at learning Pyhton in parallel?
Should I start with the Zope Book? Should I start learning python at the same time? If Learning Python was hard, which book do you recommend?
Zope isn't really a *language* (like PHP), but a *platform*, and as such, you can make it very easy or very deep. Using Zope to post web pages, handle basic user authentication, etc., is very easy--you could learn in two hours how to replicate a normal, static web site in Zope--and you'd get the benefits of its web content management interface. A few more hours will give you ideas about using <dtml-in> to iterate over things (to create site maps automatically, and lists), and a few more will give you confidence in basic SQL database connectivity. The reality is that you can do these things w/o any 'real' programming, whereas in PHP, you'd have to get your hands in more code. The new Zope Book is (IMHO) the best starting resource for Zope. It's not perfect--it can be a bit dense at times--but take it slowly and good luck! I think you only need to learn Python if you want to do some Zope development, which is further down the road for you. (tho' Python is a fairly straightforward language, and learning little chunks, like handling lists and such, will help you w/many things.) Learning Python (O'Reilly) seems to be most people's choice for a first-Python book. Good luck! -- Joel Burton <jburton@scw.org> Director of Information Systems, Support Center of Washington
How hard is it for non-programmers to learn Zope? Would PHP be easier? How many of you guys graduated from Python to Zope? If I only know HTML can I realistically
It all depends of what you want to do. In any case, wathever you want to do, you'll do it faster with zope than with php. Altough those are really differents things. Think of php as a programing langage, think zope as a web development plateform written using another programing langage (python). Some of the things I learned in a few month with php, took me less than a week to do with zope. With zope, some of the work has already been made. I stopped php development because I had the feeling to rewrite each app from scratch. This doesn't happen with zope. I would say that zope may be harder to understand at first, but it is _so_ easier to make reusable elements for future websites that you should really go the zope way.
...learn anything beyond the very basics of Zope or am I looking at learning Pyhton in parallel?
The "very basics" of zope (I mean some dtml, understanding of "the way it works") will let you build complete websites in a far better way than before. In any case, it's better to use zope only with your html knowledge, than the time it would take to learn another langage. My (totally biaised) view of zope. But wait, I discovered zope 3 weeks ago, php 2 years ago, so I'm only biaised by the little amount of time I got results with zope. Results matter... Philippe
participants (5)
-
Joel Burton -
Paul Newman -
Paul Zwarts -
Peter Bengtsson -
Philippe J