hello all. this is a rant. feel free to press the Del key :) nb - i havent installed phpnuke or codecharge. I looked at Php-nuke (http://www.php-nuke.org) and codecharge (http://www.codecharge.com), and saw something familiar. i see Squishdot in phpnuke, and maybe ZNolkSQLWizard in codecharge. the only difference isthat those applications (the former) are made for non-developers, or designers (i think) who dont want to dirty their hands, and burden their shoulders with any programming, but want a site in 2 minutes (or less :)) this is a section of market that zope can target. as said earlier, we can make squishdot more customizable, skinnable, etc without touching any codes. iirc, squishdot does have two themes available. codecharge connects to rdb, and churnes out codes. the same as ZnolkSqlWizard. the only thing is, with codecharge, we can customize by filling in forms, and voila, a site is born. this may be oversimplifying a bit. ZnolkSqlWizard churnes out codes. but then we need to hand code stuff. we could extend both squisdot and ZnolkSqlWizard to compete in this section. an easy to install and administer product, no coding needed, up in 2 minutes :) you know, i see some apps on the web, and think - zope can do that! sorry for wasting bandwidth, etc etc