RE: Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
If you do go with wxPython, there is a pretty good open source IDE called boa constructor. It can be found at: http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/ It was written in wxPython and runs on both Windows and Linux. It also has some support for Zope. Corey
I think everyone agrees that wxPython is a much nicer GUI than TKinter to use to program with. Plus the BoaConstructor it makes a natural match for FatZopeClient. COM On Win 32 it is quite easy to use COOM inside wxPython. this means embedding Internet Explorer control, MSOffice stuff, Flash Controls, etc can save a lot of time, gain rapid {Windoze} built-in functionality. Prototyping can be very fast. For businesses that neeed to connect to existing Win32 like Access+ODBC, a FatZopeClient like this would make very compelling application. It is very nice for to use IE when you don't have all MS toolbars and logo in your face :-) I am 100% in favour of cross-platform, but I also think it foolish to ignore the myriad advantages of allowing strong COM access by a FatZopeCLient. MAC ? By only concern about wxPython vs. TKinter is lack of Macintosh support... Does anyone here have Mac wxPython experience? It would be a real shame if Macs could not be consistently supported by the IDE. I think it is possible to have wxWindows/ wxPython running on Macs, but my impression is that Mac support is out of sync, and lagging behind. EPople are working it. How hard I don't know.. MacOSX will no doubt improve this dilemma. Compatibility really needs to be checked out. An older [January 2000] Mac Port by Stefan Csomor is http://www.advanced.ch/wxwin/ There are newer 'unstable 'versions moved to Sourceforge.. <quote from wxWindows MAc page http://www.wxwindows.org/dl_mac2.htm> wxWindows 2.3.0 for Mac Description: wxWindows 2.3.0 for MacOS 9.x and MacOS X. This is an 'unstable' development snapshot, for people interested in the new features in the development branch and prepared to put up with glitches that may not occur in the stable release. However, it is recommended that this snapshot is used in preference to the 'stable' release since the latter is quite old now. <quote> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=9863 Scintilla wxPython uses Scintilla, so you get all that nice code folding and syntax coloring built in. Same as in PythonWin. There is basic Python Shell and editor examnples in the wxPython demo apps which come with the download. Very nice! Grids + Trees xwPython has great tree + grid tools. Allows one to do smooth dynmaic reszing, pasting of objects [text, number, image..]. Cut'n'Paste :) This could be really useful for displaying ZODB, catalogs etc. Much better than clunky HTML table redraw crap. wxDesigner Another tool for wxWindows is wxDesigner. <quote http://www.roebling.de/info.html> wxDesigner is a tool written to make creating dialogs for wxWindows based programs easy and fast. ..snip.. Another problem when writing dialogs using the wxWindows library is that some users might want to make use of the RAD features of the Python bindings during development, but create a native binary using C++ at the end. This would entail rewriting (or at least reediting considerably) all dialog related code. wxDesigner offers a solution to both problems. Its interface allows anyone somewhat familiar with wxWindows to create aesthetically pleasant and cross-platform dialogs in a matter of minutes. Higher-level features such as supporting copy/cut/paste, infinite undo/redo and previewing make quick testing easy and safe. Additionally, all dialogs can be used in both C++ and Python (and most recently Perl) - making co-development easier than ever. </quote> It is a commercial tool which may pay for itelf quickly enough, depending on what what you need to do. While BOA is a wxPython IDE, wxDesigner is something for one's authoring toolbox. For standalone development or working on modules. Dialogs made with it are easy to use in wxPython/BOA. ./Jason ___________________________________________________________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']
Regarding Mac support for wxWindows, this is a concern for me as NIP's token Mac user (and hence the other NIP'ers working on this - Chris and Andy) :-). You can run X Windows apps under MacOS X, either with the free XonX package or Tenon's XTools. I suspect this means we'll be able to run wxWindows for X Windows under MacOS X. I'll try this when I have time. Running the X Window version doesn't solve the problem for pre-MacOS X people, but then again they can't run Zope either, so I don't think that's too much of a problem. If I can't get wxWindows running under MacOS X, we'll just have to come up with something based on Cocoa.... then you'll all be sorry! (evil laugh). (the running joke at NIP is we're trying to ease Chris W. off his unfortunate addiction to Windows - MacOS X may be a more comfortable upgrade for him than Linux, if only because hardware looks cool). Simon --On Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:33 am -0400 Jason Cunliffe <jasonic@nomadicsltd.com> wrote: [snip]
MAC ? By only concern about wxPython vs. TKinter is lack of Macintosh support... Does anyone here have Mac wxPython experience?
It would be a real shame if Macs could not be consistently supported by the IDE. I think it is possible to have wxWindows/ wxPython running on Macs, but my impression is that Mac support is out of sync, and lagging behind. EPople are working it. How hard I don't know.. MacOSX will no doubt improve this dilemma. Compatibility really needs to be checked out.
An older [January 2000] Mac Port by Stefan Csomor is http://www.advanced.ch/wxwin/ There are newer 'unstable 'versions moved to Sourceforge.. [snip]
--------- My opinions are my own, NIP's opinions are theirs ---------- Simon J. Coles Email: simon@nipltd.com New Information Paradigms Work Phone: +44 1344 753703 http://www.nipltd.com/ Work Fax: +44 1344 772510 =============== Life is too precious to take seriously ===============
On 22/5/01 10:13 pm, "Simon Coles" <simon@nipltd.com> wrote:
Regarding Mac support for wxWindows, this is a concern for me as NIP's token Mac user (and hence the other NIP'ers working on this - Chris and Andy) :-).
There's some newish work done with wxPython under MacOS X - could be a good start.
You can run X Windows apps under MacOS X, either with the free XonX package or Tenon's XTools. I suspect this means we'll be able to run wxWindows for X Windows under MacOS X. I'll try this when I have time.
Shudder.
Running the X Window version doesn't solve the problem for pre-MacOS X people, but then again they can't run Zope either, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
I know :( - this has always been a downer for me, so I installed LinuxPPC just to get Zope working on an old BlackMac I have.
If I can't get wxWindows running under MacOS X, we'll just have to come up with something based on Cocoa.... then you'll all be sorry! (evil laugh).
Oh yes they will won't they? ;) The combination of proper unix and the Mac GUI (altered via Aqua) is just so ... terrific ... as far as I'm concerned.
(the running joke at NIP is we're trying to ease Chris W. off his unfortunate addiction to Windows - MacOS X may be a more comfortable upgrade for him than Linux, if only because hardware looks cool).
Chris?, Windows? - didn't know thaaat. And you're right, the hardware (TiPb) is tres icebox ;) Tone out. -- Dr Tony McDonald, Assistant Director, FMCC, http://www.fmcc.org.uk/ The Medical School, Newcastle University Tel: +44 191 243 6140 A Zope list for UK HE/FE http://www.fmcc.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/zope
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony McDonald" <tony.mcdonald@ncl.ac.uk>
On 22/5/01 10:13 pm, "Simon Coles" <simon@nipltd.com> wrote:
Regarding Mac support for wxWindows, this is a concern for me as NIP's token Mac user (and hence the other NIP'ers working on this - Chris and Andy) :-).
There's some newish work done with wxPython under MacOS X - could be a good start.
I would like to point out that the amount of people that will continue to use Mac OS 8.0 - 9.x after MacOS will not be unsignificant, so the need for pre-OSX-support is going to be an issue in the future. My 2 öre. /dario - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-Kästen Systems Developer Chalmers Univ. of Technology dario@ita.chalmers.se [this space for rent....................] CITES
On 22 May 2001 11:33:58 -0400, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
I think everyone agrees that wxPython is a much nicer GUI than TKinter to use to program with. Plus the BoaConstructor it makes a natural match for FatZopeClient.
COM On Win 32 it is quite easy to use COOM inside wxPython. this means embedding Internet Explorer control, MSOffice stuff, Flash Controls, etc can save a lot of time, gain rapid {Windoze} built-in functionality. Prototyping can be very fast. For businesses that neeed to connect to existing Win32 like Access+ODBC, a FatZopeClient like this would make very compelling application. It is very nice for to use IE when you don't have all MS toolbars and logo in your face :-)
Onion other hand, I've heard tell that python using COM doesn't 'freeze' well on windows. So if you wanted to make a single executable out of it, it would be bad mojo. Allegedly, for cross platform COM, there is good progress being made with PyXPCOM, but I have no personal experience to relate. Just soem thoughts .. Bill
Onion other hand, I've heard tell that python using COM doesn't 'freeze' well on windows. So if you wanted to make a single executable out of it, it would be bad mojo.
Not sure why this would be so, beyond the regular requirements to check the registry for COM controls etc. One would not be freeezing the COM stuff obvisouly, merely the Python checking and wrapper code for using them. For example, on windows it _is_ safe to assume that at a minimum IE is present. The 'single simple .exe' is still one issue which Python needs to resolve better. Have you any experience doing this? I have only read about it -- tips welcome. I have a number of applications on Win32 which use Python and include all their own binaries. Most well known are probably Zope, and Blender [http://www.blender.nl]. Both are very powerful applications, quick and easy to install. As a regular use, it does not bother me at all that they waste a little disk space to include an extra Python engine in there. But as a developer, it is frustrating to have that replication, especially when I want to mix in and/or match extra Python modules. Then the Python path on Win32 can be a little confusing. Perhasp this is my lack of skill non in23 - I don't know.
Allegedly, for cross platform COM, there is good progress being made with PyXPCOM, but I have no personal experience to relate.
Have not looked into it. Sceptical I will live that long ;-) Is this part of .NET ? thanks ./jason
On 26 May 2001 00:13:02 -0400, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
Allegedly, for cross platform COM, there is good progress being made with PyXPCOM, but I have no personal experience to relate.
Have not looked into it. Sceptical I will live that long ;-) Is this part of .NET ?
IIRC, it is a Mozilla thing. Apparently a Corss(X) Platform COM library they are making/using/something.
PyXPCOM are bindings between Python and XPCOM (Mozilla). It means you can script Mozilla in Python. There is more information on this here: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/Komodo/PyXPCOM/ Cheers. -- Andy McKay. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Anderson" <bill@libc.org> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 2:01 PM Subject: [Zope] RE: Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
On 26 May 2001 00:13:02 -0400, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
Allegedly, for cross platform COM, there is good progress being made with PyXPCOM, but I have no personal experience to relate.
Have not looked into it. Sceptical I will live that long ;-) Is this part of .NET ?
IIRC, it is a Mozilla thing. Apparently a Corss(X) Platform COM library they are making/using/something.
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Hi all, I have been trying and trying - but I could not find out: The problem is that I want to check if a certain file (method) exists in a folder, and if not, display another method. I am talking about a 'default_en' which should be displayed if it is in a folder and a 'default' which exists in each folder and should be displayed otherwise. To make this clear: root: default default_en + folder1 - default + folder2 - default - default_en OK, everything works, exept in folder1. I check if a 'default_en' is there, otherwise display 'default'. But what happens is that because of heredity the 'default_en' from the root is found and displayed. The code is simple: <dtml-if "'default_en' in objectIds('DTML Method')"> <dtml-var default_en> <dtml-else> <dtml-var default> </dtml-if> Does anybody know how I could display the 'default' in folder1? (I mean, with the functionality I want) Thanks. Martin
Use <dtml-with "PARENTS[0]" only> or something like that. Just as long as you keep the 'only' argument. This turns of aquisistion for a while. To do it in Python you are obliged to do it in an External Method (not a Python Script). Dieter Maur contributed with this hack. def hasattr_itself(object,attribute): """return true iff *object* itself has attribute *attribute*.""" base= getattr(object,'aq_base',object) return hasattr(base,attribute) But maybe it's worth trying first. In a Python Script: if hasattr(context.folder2.aq_explicit, 'default_en'): Note the .aq_explicit Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Stötzel" <martin@stoetzel.com> To: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: [Zope] Avoid or supress heredity
Hi all,
I have been trying and trying - but I could not find out: The problem is that I want to check if a certain file (method) exists in a folder, and if not, display another method.
I am talking about a 'default_en' which should be displayed if it is in a folder and a 'default' which exists in each folder and should be displayed otherwise.
To make this clear:
root: default default_en + folder1 - default + folder2 - default - default_en
OK, everything works, exept in folder1. I check if a 'default_en' is there, otherwise display 'default'. But what happens is that because of heredity the 'default_en' from the root is found and displayed.
The code is simple:
<dtml-if "'default_en' in objectIds('DTML Method')"> <dtml-var default_en> <dtml-else> <dtml-var default> </dtml-if>
Does anybody know how I could display the 'default' in folder1? (I mean, with the functionality I want)
Thanks. Martin
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I know for a fact that the BOA people are in the process of assembling a new release (it's a CVS-tree merging thing IIRC, because Riaan and Robert got out of sync recently ;) The Zope support (ZOA) will be via XML-RPC only (as opposed to the current FTP) and looks pretty impressive from what I've seen. It might be worth the wait for NIP so not to reinvent some wheels ;) Stefan On Tue, 22 May 2001, Corey Zimmet wrote:
If you do go with wxPython, there is a pretty good open source IDE called boa constructor. It can be found at:
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/
It was written in wxPython and runs on both Windows and Linux. It also has some support for Zope.
Corey
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Hi Stefan :-) "Stefan H. Holek" wrote:
The Zope support (ZOA) will be via XML-RPC only (as opposed to the current FTP) and looks pretty impressive from what I've seen.
Cool, maybe the authors could come and contribute to the ZFC disucssion list?
It might be worth the wait for NIP so not to reinvent some wheels ;)
No wheels being re-invented here :-) The aim is just to explore the space and it'd be great to get as much help as possible with that. We have an idea for a framework to let people do this, it would be amazing if the ZOA stuff could plug in to that. Can any of the ZOA developers comment? cheers, Chris
participants (11)
-
Andy McKay -
Bill Anderson -
Chris Withers -
Corey Zimmet -
Dario Lopez-K�sten -
Jason Cunliffe -
Martin Stötzel -
Peter Bengtsson -
Simon Coles -
Stefan H. Holek -
Tony McDonald