Are any instructions available for building a template for a site? I have yet started looking at templates and don't know if one would start with developing a site specific template. If there is a tutorial which helps you get started that would be very handy... -- John
John Poltorak wrote at 2004-2-8 00:00 +0000:
Are any instructions available for building a template for a site?
You have read the ZPT chapters in the Zope Book? Then you know about "metal:define-macro", "metal:use-macro", "metal:define-slot" and "metal:fill-slot". With this knowledge, you may have a look at Plone, especially its "main_template.pt". Maybe, you want to use Plone as your starting point altogether? -- Dieter
On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 07:34:36PM +0100, Dieter Maurer wrote:
John Poltorak wrote at 2004-2-8 00:00 +0000:
Are any instructions available for building a template for a site?
You have read the ZPT chapters in the Zope Book?
No, I haven't looked at ZPT. I thought I would try to get the hang of DTML first, just so that I can make some progress with ZOPE. I'm finding it a steep learning curve.
Then you know about "metal:define-macro", "metal:use-macro", "metal:define-slot" and "metal:fill-slot".
With this knowledge, you may have a look at Plone, especially its "main_template.pt".
Maybe, you want to use Plone as your starting point altogether?
I have not installed Plone yet, and don't know much about it or CMF. Do they both need to installed or can I install them independently? I'm getting a little bit saturated with all these new gadgets and find myself being unable to see how everything fits together.
-- Dieter
-- John
Hi John, John Poltorak wrote:
No, I haven't looked at ZPT. I thought I would try to get the hang of DTML first, just so that I can make some progress with ZOPE.
I know you'll hear others say this, but try ZPT if you can - it does my head in, and sometimes seems very cryptic, but it better defines where design/HTML end and function/Script begins.
I'm finding it a steep learning curve.
It is, or I find it so - I've been using it for a few years now, but am not a Zope developer as such - most of my solutions involve "stringing other people's pearls". How well do you know Python?
Then you know about "metal:define-macro", "metal:use-macro", "metal:define-slot" and "metal:fill-slot".
With this knowledge, you may have a look at Plone, especially its "main_template.pt".
Maybe, you want to use Plone as your starting point altogether?
I have not installed Plone yet, and don't know much about it or CMF.
Best to get oriented with Zope at this stage - and FWIW DTML is deprecated in Plone 2.0 anyway...
Do they both need to installed or can I install them independently?
Plone sits on CMF, which sits on Zope, which sits on Python.
I'm getting a little bit saturated with all these new gadgets and find myself being unable to see how everything fits together.
I sympathise - I seem to find the hard things easy (usually because there is something I can re-use) and the easy things hard (because I really aren't a coder, and some very simple things involve a simple "phrase" in Python and I get lost in the syntax. Plod through he tutorial and try to meddle with the examples installed with Zope - and come back and ask here. Zope is a great environment and this is a good list - so good that it's sometime hard to remember to google first! <grin> -- Regards, PhilK Email: phil@xfr.co.uk / Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518 “The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.” Philip K. Dick
On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 08:52:40PM +0000, Philip Kilner wrote:
Hi John,
I know you'll hear others say this, but try ZPT if you can - it does my head in, and sometimes seems very cryptic, but it better defines where design/HTML end and function/Script begins.
Do I need Plone for that? Where can I grab some sample ZPT pages, just to see what they look like?
I'm finding it a steep learning curve.
It is, or I find it so - I've been using it for a few years now, but am not a Zope developer as such - most of my solutions involve "stringing other people's pearls".
Well that is my initial intention. I don't want to go around invent a square wheel when so much stuff has already been developed, and by people who know what they are doing.
How well do you know Python?
Not at all. REXX is my favourite language, but I don't really want to get too deeply into the nooks and crannies of Zope. I just want to be able to build and manage fairly static web pages with the occasional bit of updated content, and the ability to transform standard templates with the use of themes.
Do they both need to installed or can I install them independently?
Plone sits on CMF, which sits on Zope, which sits on Python.
Plone on top of CMF on top of Zope on top of Python all installed and managed remotely, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. There's just too much to go wrong, but I'll persevere in the hope that it may eventually work...
Plod through he tutorial and try to meddle with the examples installed with Zope - and come back and ask here. Zope is a great environment and this is a good list - so good that it's sometime hard to remember to google first! <grin>
Does Plone come with its own tutorial? I still can't get my head around what it provides.
--
Regards,
PhilK
Email: phil@xfr.co.uk / Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words. Philip K. Dick
-- John
On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 10:36:34PM +0000, John Poltorak wrote:
On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 08:52:40PM +0000, Philip Kilner wrote:
Hi John,
I know you'll hear others say this, but try ZPT if you can - it does my head in, and sometimes seems very cryptic, but it better defines where design/HTML end and function/Script begins.
Do I need Plone for that?
No. ZPT comes with "plain zope". Plone uses ZPT to implement its look & feel.
Where can I grab some sample ZPT pages, just to see what they look like?
hmmm... all over the place... but check this out for starters: http://zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/ZPT.stx There are lots of user comments from people who have had all the same questions and confusions that you have had, so it's worth reading the comments too. After you've got that down pretty well, move on to this: http://zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AdvZPT.stx There are far fewer comments there, hopefully because once you've got the "basics", the advanced stuff isn't that much harder ;-)
How well do you know Python?
Not at all. REXX is my favourite language, but I don't really want to get too deeply into the nooks and crannies of Zope. I just want to be able to build and manage fairly static web pages with the occasional bit of updated content, and the ability to transform standard templates with the use of themes.
OK. It's hard to get by in zope without at least a *little* ability to read and write simple bits of python. There are plenty of good tutorials floating around, check the documentation section of python.org. You don't need to get in to the "nooks and crannies" right away (or ever).
Do they both need to installed or can I install them independently?
Plone sits on CMF, which sits on Zope, which sits on Python.
Plone on top of CMF on top of Zope on top of Python all installed and managed remotely, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Nah :-)
Does Plone come with its own tutorial?
do'nt think so. But Andy McKay is working on a nice "Plone Book", which is already quite useful though it has some formatting problems currently: http://plone.org/documentation/book
I still can't get my head around what it provides.
Plone provides a "portal" type of site which works well out of the box, and can be customized as you desire. Read "what is plone", 1st chapter in Andy's book. Then play around with it here and you'll get the idea: http://demo.plone.org -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's DOCTOR MAN! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com)
Hi John, John Poltorak wrote:
I know you'll hear others say this, but try ZPT if you can - it does my head in, and sometimes seems very cryptic, but it better defines where design/HTML end and function/Script begins.
Do I need Plone for that?
No, in fact the ZPTs in Plone are a bit heavy-duty to begin with.
Where can I grab some sample ZPT pages, just to see what they look like?
I've just installed a clean copy to see what's in there now - and am surprised to see that I don't see the examples I remember...anybody?
How well do you know Python?
OK, well Python is relatively easy, but the reason I asked is that you need to do something "satisfying" to get hooked - you could stick to working with templates to get some look-and-feel mileage, or play with some products to get a feel for what's out there...
Plone on top of CMF on top of Zope on top of Python all installed and managed remotely, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. There's just too much to go wrong, but I'll persevere in the hope that it may eventually work...
OK, well it might /sound/ like a tower of cards, but really it's a very logical progression: - - Python is a scripting language, suited to web applications. - Zope is a web application server written in Python. - CMF is a content-management framework written in Zope - a tool kit for content management applications. - Plone is a full-blown out-of-the-box content management application.
Does Plone come with its own tutorial?
No as such, as far as I know. As a content management system it is fairly intuitive - but making it for things it doesn't do out of the box is a bit more complicated. I'd definitely get some Zope orientation under your belt first.
I still can't get my head around what it provides.
As a content management system, it's mainly about creating and publishing web content, but the complexities of the subject mean that it /looks/ like a tool for text-based portal applications. It can do a lot more, but sadly many Plone sites never go beyond Plone's own - excellent - look and feel. It's hard to help in a vacuum - what do you /want/ to do with Zope? -- Regards, PhilK Email: phil@xfr.co.uk / Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518 “The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.” Philip K. Dick
participants (4)
-
Dieter Maurer -
John Poltorak -
Paul Winkler -
Philip Kilner