RE: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
At 02:37 PM 1/18/2001 -0600, you wrote:
do an xml export. You can save cvs that to your hearts content.
... but then I'll have to forego readability, edit-ability, etc. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people, given the drawbacks of having to give up many of the existing tools, having the application server only be able to export in a proprietary format, and being bound to the application server for so many development-related tasks. It's impossible to do a simple grep through the code, for example ... I'm trying to reconcile this, as you might see, because I want to use Zope but am having a hard time making it work for me. Gerald.
do an xml export. You can save cvs that to your hearts content.
... but then I'll have to forego readability, edit-ability, etc.
Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people,
I'll wager that it is a problem for lots of people but you don't hear from them here. They've already moved on to other solutions. I know a few who were completely put off by not being able to grep through the code. It's a problem I'd love to be able to solve but so far it hasn't been solved by people far smarter than me. --jfarr
Jonothan Farr wrote:
do an xml export. You can save cvs that to your hearts content.
... but then I'll have to forego readability, edit-ability, etc.
Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people,
I'll wager that it is a problem for lots of people but you don't hear from them here. They've already moved on to other solutions. I know a few who were completely put off by not being able to grep through the code.
Well, I get around this by keeping the code in Python Products as much as possible (nice and CVS friendly) and just using TTW stuff for customisation. cheers, Chris
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Chris Withers wrote:
Well, I get around this by keeping the code in Python Products as much as possible (nice and CVS friendly) and just using TTW stuff for customisation.
That's the same thing as I do. What about you other people, are you actually doing serious application development in ZClasses? Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't seem very Zopish to me. However, I do agree that people tend to do ZClass development before going to Python Products, and since the (in my opinion) worst solution is chosen first, some of the less subborn ones might abandon Zope. However, I'm not quite sure I consider that a problem. Not with Itamars Guide anyway :). Happy Zoping!
On Thursday 18 January 2001, at 18 h 40, the keyboard of Gerald Gutierrez <pozix@home.com> wrote:
Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people, given the drawbacks of having to give up many of the existing tools, having the application server only be able to export in a proprietary format, and being bound to the application server for so many development-related tasks. It's impossible to do a simple grep through the code, for example ...
I agree it is one of the MAIN problems with Zope. You have my support. A good way to have a read-write (at least a readonly) view of the ZODB would change things a lot.
At 09:49 1/19/01 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
On Thursday 18 January 2001, at 18 h 40, the keyboard of Gerald Gutierrez <pozix@home.com> wrote:
Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people, given the drawbacks of having to give up many of the existing tools, having the application server only be able to export in a proprietary format, and being bound to the application server for so many development-related tasks. It's impossible to do a simple grep through the code, for example ...
I agree it is one of the MAIN problems with Zope. You have my support. A good way to have a read-write (at least a readonly) view of the ZODB would change things a lot.
I think that a good way would be to have a new Storage available: something that stored ZODB using the actual filesystem (directories, files, etc). A headstart is available at http://www.ppetru.net/software/index.html ( Directory Storage). If only it worked..... :-( C U! -- Mario Valente
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
I agree it is one of the MAIN problems with Zope. You have my support. A good way to have a read-write (at least a readonly) view of the ZODB would change things a lot. Just to make sure that I did not missunderstood something: I wanted to use PostgreSQL instead of ZODB for Zope contents. I did not read *how* to do this but I did not dive very deep into Zope but I think I have read anywhere that this is possible. Accessing PostgreSQL (searching!) shouldn't be a problem.
What about this idea? Are there any drawbacks (if it is possible at all)? Kind regards Andreas.
In it's current released form ZCVSMixin really does help with a lot of the configuration/process problems in developing with Zope. You can still 'grep' for stuff, and it is possible to perform simple edits in the xml representation without much fear of actually breaking anything (it's pretty obvious where the text of a method is stored etc.. ). However I have not really found this necessary. We use ZCVSMixin all the time, and (almost) never touch the filesystem directly. 1) Each developer works in their own Zope, with their own local 'checkout' of the project (many projects involve both instantiated Zope objects, and Python Product source code, all of which are managed in CVS). 2) When you are 'editing' a Zope object you use an editor that knows about FTP (e.g., emacs), WebDAV or a web browser. 3) You can use the 'normal' CVS process (update, modify, checkin). 4) You can still do sensible 'diffs' on the xml representation and get a pretty good idea about what's happening. 5) It's easy to set up a 'test' Zope, and a 'live' Zope each of which also has access to CVS. Periodically we update the 'test' Zope and let users bang away at it looking for bugs. When we're ready for an update to the live server we checkin our code tag it... (you can still use the filesystem CVS commands to tag versions recursively!) and then update the live server (inside a Zope Version) to that tag. When we save the Zope version we are fully updated. You still need to 'know too much' to use this process effectively, but, it is a pretty workable process, especially for a site that is constantly evolving (are there sites out there that *don't* constantly evolve?) It has also turned out that we occasionally need to make a *really* simple change on the live server... (there is no way this could possibly break anything... so I'll just change it!). As silly as that sounds.. it happens. It's nice to know that we can simply check that change in.. and know that all the developers will get it.. even though they are working on different systems. There are still a few annoying bugs, and there are several major issues that need to be addressed: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/SynchronizationMechanismZCVSMixi... I'm hoping to "get some time" soon to address some of these things. In the mean time... it's probably worth a look. -steve
"GG" == Gerald Gutierrez <pozix@home.com> writes:
GG> At 02:37 PM 1/18/2001 -0600, you wrote: >> do an xml export. You can save cvs that to your hearts content. GG> ... but then I'll have to forego readability, edit-ability, GG> etc. GG> Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for GG> more people, given the drawbacks of having to give up many of GG> the existing tools, having the application server only be able GG> to export in a proprietary format, and being bound to the GG> application server for so many development-related tasks. It's GG> impossible to do a simple grep through the code, for example GG> ... GG> I'm trying to reconcile this, as you might see, because I want GG> to use Zope but am having a hard time making it work for me. GG> Gerald.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Steve Spicklemire wrote:
2) When you are 'editing' a Zope object you use an editor that knows about FTP (e.g., emacs), WebDAV or a web browser. Sorry for my ignorance. I tried using emacs with ange-ftp and it works. But what is WebDAV? I've read this word first time in this thread and don't have the slightest idea what it is.
Kind regards Andreas.
Andreas, see www.webdav.org and the w3 pages on it (www.w3.org) Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Tille" <tillea@rki.de> Cc: "Zope user list" <zope@zope.org> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 2:25 PM Subject: [Zope] Re: Tools used for programming Zope
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Steve Spicklemire wrote:
2) When you are 'editing' a Zope object you use an editor that knows about FTP (e.g., emacs), WebDAV or a web browser. Sorry for my ignorance. I tried using emacs with ange-ftp and it works. But what is WebDAV? I've read this word first time in this thread and don't have the slightest idea what it is.
Kind regards
Andreas.
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participants (9)
-
Andreas Tille -
Chris Withers -
Erik Enge -
Gerald Gutierrez -
Jonothan Farr -
Mario Valente -
Phil Harris -
Stephane Bortzmeyer -
Steve Spicklemire