Re: [Zope] [off topic] question?
So, I don't get it... Why is Java so popular, while Python seems to be the same and is born before Java...
Can somebody give me a easy explenation?
Well, there are a dozen of fine languages older than Java. What happened is that Java caught the attention of the big media because of the responsivity of web applets in HotJava, the first java-enabled web browser. Java was the first language to be "known" by Wall Street before it was known to programmers. The name of the language, "java", was aptly chosen, too. BB
Boris Borcic wrote:
So, I don't get it... Why is Java so popular, while Python seems to be the same and is born before Java...
Can somebody give me a easy explenation?
Well, there are a dozen of fine languages older than Java. What happened is that Java caught the attention of the big media because of the responsivity of web applets in HotJava, the first java-enabled web browser. Java was the first language to be "known" by Wall Street before it was known to programmers.
Well - I think this is merely a marketing reason. Sun did a lot of marketing with Java. Moreover I have to remind that Java is not the only language that offers web applets: A short time after HotJava, Grail was released - this is a web browser entirely written in Python with the capability of Python applets. The problem with Grail is that it is rather slow, moreover it never gained the publicity of HotJava but the idea itself is great. What I would like to see is a plugin for Netscape/IE that enables the webbrowser to run Python applets, but it seems that no one is interested in this. (At least I never heard of such a project) Regards, Hermann -- Hermann Himmelbauer E-Mail: dusty@strike.wu-wien.ac.at Addr.: A-3400 Klosterneuburg Martinstr. 18/2 Austria Tel: ++43-2243-22305-24 / ++43-2243-26562, Fax: ++43-2243-22305-27
Well - I think this is merely a marketing reason. Sun did a lot of marketing with Java. Moreover I have to remind that Java is not the only language that offers web applets: A short time after HotJava, Grail was released - this is a web browser entirely written in Python with the capability of Python applets. The problem with Grail is that it is rather slow, moreover it never gained the publicity of HotJava but the idea itself is great.
What I would like to see is a plugin for Netscape/IE that enables the webbrowser to run Python applets, but it seems that no one is interested in this. (At least I never heard of such a project)
Applets are not what you want really (too much 1997-something). It would probably be better with a plugin doing python script-handling: <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Python">. And making the DOM accessable from Python-scripts. It accualy be rather exciting because the object origentation in JavaScript (EMCA) is not at Pythons level. Even greater would be a Zope-browser with clientside object presistans. Zope-DOM maybe? The problem is that the users don't care about Python (nor Java) and to get them to download a plug-in just to access your website. Best Regards, Johan Carlsson
At 12:43 24-4-99 , Shaolin wrote:
Applets are not what you want really (too much 1997-something).
It would probably be better with a plugin doing python script-handling: <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Python">.
And making the DOM accessable from Python-scripts.
It accualy be rather exciting because the object origentation in JavaScript (EMCA) is not at Pythons level.
A bit late, I know... <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="Python"> Is already possible, within the ActiveScripting framework. This framework separates the DOM from the scripting language, and is used in MS IIS, MS Internet Explorer, MS Windows Scripting Host, and maybe some third-party products. Microsoft's JScript and VBScript both run within this framework. An ActiveScript implementation of Python has been around since 1997, as part of the PythonCOM package (http://www.python.org/windows/win32com/). Unfortunatly, it's not crossplatform. It's solidly stuck on the Wintel platform. -- Martijn Pieters, Web Developer | Antraciet http://www.antraciet.nl | Tel: +31-35-6254545 Fax: +31-35-6254555 | mailto:mj@antraciet.nl http://www.antraciet.nl/~mj | PGP: http://wwwkeys.nl.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xA8A32149 ------------------------------------------
Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
What I would like to see is a plugin for Netscape/IE that enables the webbrowser to run Python applets, but it seems that no one is interested in this. (At least I never heard of such a project)
It was done some years ago, but it never became very popular. Look at the end of: http://www.python.org/ftp/python/wpy/ ---------------------- Hannu
Hannu Krosing wrote:
Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
What I would like to see is a plugin for Netscape/IE that enables the webbrowser to run Python applets,
It was done some years ago, but it never became very popular.
I've got a working version of a Python plugin that we're cautiously testing with a few clients. Christian Tismer is also doing some work along these lines, and I'm comparing notes with him before releasing anything. I'm using the plugin to launch a Python process that runs outside the browser, i.e. a wxPython GUI application. NPPython.dll downloads Python code pointed to by the URL and executes it. This is probably not what a most programmers have in mind when they think Netscape/Python/Plugin/Applet, but it's more stable (though less secure) since many programs seem likely to cause the browser to crash. Best regards, Jeff Bauer Rubicon, Inc.
Jeff Bauer wrote:
Hannu Krosing wrote:
Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
What I would like to see is a plugin for Netscape/IE that enables the webbrowser to run Python applets,
It was done some years ago, but it never became very popular.
If I remember right, didn't this bring an interactive Python interpreter to run in a NS window? Not sure, long time ago.
I've got a working version of a Python plugin that we're cautiously testing with a few clients.
Christian Tismer is also doing some work along these lines, and I'm comparing notes with him before releasing anything.
Well Jeff, let's echange thoughts about that.
I'm using the plugin to launch a Python process that runs outside the browser, i.e. a wxPython GUI application. NPPython.dll downloads Python code pointed to by the URL and executes it. This is probably not what a most programmers have in mind when they think Netscape/Python/Plugin/Applet, but it's more stable (though less secure) since many programs seem likely to cause the browser to crash.
Well, what I do at the moment is running Delphi applets in a Netscape window, with full support for the NP API, but no Python yet. What exactly would you like to achieve by a Python plugin? Some remote control of Netscape? Python as an applet dll, or as a long running background process? Showing your own windows (wxWindows perhaps) as NS subwindow? The tighter a plugin works with Netscape, the more likely is that you crash, since the NS strategy to create and destroy windows and DLL's is not easy to cope with. Well, this is off topic now and should continue by private email. Do we want to start a NPPython mailing list on Starship? ciao - chris.pluck.inn -- Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@appliedbiometrics.com> Applied Biometrics GmbH : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 101 : *Starship* http://starship.python.net 10553 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net PGP Fingerprint E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15 D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF we're tired of banana software - shipped green, ripens at home
Christian Tismer wrote:
Well, this is off topic now and should continue by private email. Do we want to start a NPPython mailing list on Starship?
A mailing list might be best. I don't want to bore the rest of the Zopists, nor exclude anybody who's interested. -Jeff
participants (7)
-
Boris Borcic -
Christian Tismer -
Hannu Krosing -
Hermann Himmelbauer -
Jeff Bauer -
Martijn Pieters -
Shaolin