Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
Hi, A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction. We're looking at both wxPython and Tkinter as possible windowing toolkits. Which one would you choose? Why? ;-) cheers, Chris
On Tuesday 22 May 2001 01:38, Chris Withers wrote:
Hi,
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction.
We're looking at both wxPython and Tkinter as possible windowing toolkits.
Which one would you choose? Why? ;-)
pyQT, very mature cross platform high performance, graphically rich toolkit, support for internationalization, new support for macs, runs on embedded devices (zope admin for the palm:), lots of features. ibm's investing for voice recoginition. qtdesigner is very nice gui design environment with xml xports that will allow code generation for all supported platforms. qt3.0 has some nice db/io abstractions in the toolkit. the windows version is not free but if you're willing to plop down some change for a dev. license you can release a windows version. the x win stuff is gpl'd http://www.trolltech.com (qt trolls) http://www.thekompany.com (its under their projects section for pyqt). btw. you should maybe have a look at wingide.com and check out their patches to interface to zope. cheers kapil
wxPython and if you open source it I would be interested in helping with it. Designing the webpages of tomorrow http://webme-eng.com Designing the MMORPGS of tomorrow http://worldforge.org On Tue, 22 May 2001, Chris Withers wrote:
Hi,
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction.
We're looking at both wxPython and Tkinter as possible windowing toolkits.
Which one would you choose? Why? ;-)
cheers,
Chris
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kosh@aesaeion.com wrote:
wxPython and if you open source it I would be interested in helping with it.
Cool. Yes, it would be released as open source. I'm wondering when to go and get a project on SourceForge to be honest ;-) How does 'Swift' sound, as a name? cheers, Chris
Cool. Yes, it would be released as open source. I'm wondering when to go and get a project on SourceForge to be honest ;-)
Let me tell you that this seems great and important news for the zope community. I have the strong feeling that an ide would boost zope popularity / usability / enduser power. I think some ide has been built for frontier (radio userland : http://radio.userland.com/download.html ). I have no idea if it worth looking at, but maybe there are some good ideas there. Anyway, may the luck be with you ! Philippe
wxPython, has a lot more functionality from the getgo, it's also fast. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> To: <zope@zope.org> Cc: <andyd@nipltd.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:38 AM Subject: [Zope] Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
Hi,
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction.
We're looking at both wxPython and Tkinter as possible windowing toolkits.
Which one would you choose? Why? ;-)
cheers,
Chris
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Phil Harris wrote:
wxPython, has a lot more functionality from the getgo, it's also fast.
Phil, you'd be a good person to ask... How does it fair on Win NT? Is it easy to install? Where can I (stupid Windoze user) get it from? cheers, Chris
Chris, Fairs fine, good even. how about www.wxpython.org, ;) Work's good on Linux too. I'd love to help more with this, but I know it's in good hands. 8¬) Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> To: "Phil Harris" <phil.harris@zope.co.uk> Cc: <zope@zope.org>; <andyd@nipltd.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
Phil Harris wrote:
wxPython, has a lot more functionality from the getgo, it's also fast.
Phil,
you'd be a good person to ask... How does it fair on Win NT? Is it easy to install? Where can I (stupid Windoze user) get it from?
cheers,
Chris
We're looking at both wxPython and Tkinter as possible windowing toolkits.
Which one would you choose? Why? ;-)
Easy easy. Choose the one that LOOKS THE MOST NATIVE. The most non-userfriendly thing in X or Windows is when you get a GUI you've never seen before. (like WingIDE on Win32)
cheers,
Chris
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Peter Bengtsson wrote:
Choose the one that LOOKS THE MOST NATIVE. The most non-userfriendly thing in X or Windows is when you get a GUI you've never seen before. (like WingIDE on Win32)
Thankyou ;-) Now which one out of wxPython or Tkinter is that? cheers, Chris
That would be wxPython it looks native on any platform it runs on. :) On unix it usually uses gtk on windows it uses the regular windows libs however there are other gui bindings available also. Designing the webpages of tomorrow http://webme-eng.com Designing the MMORPGS of tomorrow http://worldforge.org On Tue, 22 May 2001, Chris Withers wrote:
Peter Bengtsson wrote:
Choose the one that LOOKS THE MOST NATIVE. The most non-userfriendly thing in X or Windows is when you get a GUI you've never seen before. (like WingIDE on Win32)
Thankyou ;-) Now which one out of wxPython or Tkinter is that?
cheers,
Chris
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Well to be honest I'm not too sure on Linux but in the Windows world most Tkinter apps are horrible and the only one that is getting close is IDLE written by Guido et al. wxPython is my bet. The worst alternative is probably Java and it won't help with that Swing thing they have because that will just make it even slower. I dislike Java because using it feels like a completely new windows system. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> To: "Peter Bengtsson" <mail@peterbe.com> Cc: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
Peter Bengtsson wrote:
Choose the one that LOOKS THE MOST NATIVE. The most non-userfriendly thing in X or Windows is when you get a GUI
you've
never seen before. (like WingIDE on Win32)
Thankyou ;-) Now which one out of wxPython or Tkinter is that?
cheers,
Chris
[Chris Withers]
Peter Bengtsson wrote:
Choose the one that LOOKS THE MOST NATIVE. The most non-userfriendly thing in X or Windows is when you get a GUI
you've
never seen before. (like WingIDE on Win32)
Thankyou ;-) Now which one out of wxPython or Tkinter is that?
wxPython. Tom P
Chris Withers wrote:
Hi,
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction.
So have I ;) The plan is to do a ZEO version first and then "remote" it using some XML-based protocol, most likely some extensions to current XML-RPC. The ZEO version would run by definition with superuser privileges (i guess), the remote version should be more restricted
We're looking at both wxPython and Tkinter as possible windowing toolkits.
Which one would you choose? Why? ;-)
wxWindows of course. Much more mature toolkit, more functionality out-of-box, Pros: * looks native on any platform (currently only win32 and *nix, but Mac seems to be in works and possibly others too) * has a good cross-platform editor widget (scintilla) * fast Cons: * small beauty problems on GTK (tree icon background is not transparent), probably easy to fix * native HTML rendering widget is very basic, and needs fixing specially in rendering tables (it does not even try to set column widths right). OTOH it lets you embed native wxPython widgets. OTOOH you can always use external browser for preview. OTOOOH Tkinter has no HTML widget AFAIK. Other: * we would probably need to write special parsers for scintilla to get most out of syntax hiliting of dtml - the current ones (html and xml) are mostly OK, but could be improved upon. at least two would be needed one for SQL and one for HTML --------------- Hannu
Hannu Krosing wrote:
Chris Withers wrote:
Hi,
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction.
So have I ;)
What's the best way for us to pool efforts? cheers, Chris
Chris Withers wrote:
Hannu Krosing wrote:
Chris Withers wrote:
Hi,
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction.
So have I ;)
What's the best way for us to pool efforts?
I'll try to make a small writeup of my efforts by end of week and also provide a minimal working client (I had it somewhat working once but I have outsmarted myself since ;() ----------------- Hannu
Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> writes:
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope
What is a fat client? On a related note (I think?), how hard would it be to build a Groove-like system with ZEO? I have never used Groove, but it sounds like a useful groupware tool for everyman. If the basis of Groove is incremental synchronisation of shared databases, then ZEO seems to offer similar functionality, especially if it encrypted the synchronisation protocol, which is what you, Chris, mentioned doing in a previous post. --- Alastair
On a related note (I think?), how hard would it be to build a Groove-like system with ZEO? I have never used Groove, but it sounds like a useful groupware tool for everyman. If the basis of Groove is incremental synchronisation of shared databases, then ZEO seems to offer similar functionality, especially if it encrypted the synchronisation protocol, which is what you, Chris, mentioned doing in a previous post. --- Alastair We at vPatch have also been looking at another P2P system called Magi -- www.endtech.com . It is just coming out with a killer work flow system with explicit work flow -- ie the work flow states are displayed as a work flow graph which I think is necessary when you get more complex work flows. This leads me to the question. Does DC have a strategy for P2P? In our opinion the Application Service Provider model will be superceeded by P2P. Regards, Albert Boulanger aboulanger@vpatch.com vPatch Technologies http://www.vpatch.com
albert boulanger wrote:
This leads me to the question. Does DC have a strategy for P2P? In our opinion the Application Service Provider model will be superceeded by P2P.
While DC is focused on content management, I agree that Zope's (transactional, distributed, lightweight, object) database would make an interesting P2P infrastructure. --Paul
Delivered-To: shane@shane.digicool.com X-Comment-To: shane@shane.digicool.com From: Paul Everitt <paul@digicool.com> Organization: Digital Creations, Inc. X-Lines: 13 References: <vg8zjp8n67.fsf@mastiff.dfki.uni-sb.de> <200105221455.KAA29811@ox.ldgo.columbia.edu> X-NNTP-Posting-Host: socrates.digicool.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: shane.digicool.com 990553057 25685 192.168.23.39 (22 May 2001 17:37:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@shane.digicool.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 May 2001 17:37:37 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-{C-UDP; EBM-SONY1} (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en Sender: zope-admin@zope.org Errors-To: zope-admin@zope.org X-BeenThere: zope@zope.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 (101270) Precedence: bulk List-Help: <mailto:zope-request@zope.org?subject=help> List-Post: <mailto:zope@zope.org> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope>, <mailto:zope-request@zope.org?subject=subscribe> List-Id: Users of the Z Object Publishing Environment <zope.zope.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope>, <mailto:zope-request@zope.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope/> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:38:58 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Length: 646 albert boulanger wrote:
This leads me to the question. Does DC have a strategy for P2P? In our opinion the Application Service Provider model will be superceeded by P2P.
While DC is focused on content management, I agree that Zope's (transactional, distributed, lightweight, object) database would make an interesting P2P infrastructure. --Paul Yes and a content management solution for P2P to boot... As the Groove folks say its all about the right layering and Zope has that in many aspects. Fundamental is to do object publishing at a low level and build on that. Regards, Albert Boulanger aboulanger@vpatch.com
Alastair Burt wrote:
Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> writes:
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope
What is a fat client?
On a related note (I think?), how hard would it be to build a Groove-like system with ZEO? I have never used Groove, but it sounds like a useful groupware tool for everyman. If the basis of Groove is incremental synchronisation of shared databases, then ZEO seems to offer similar functionality,
Actually its a lot more than incremental synchronization of databases. The key with Groove is that it is a client-centric peer-to-peer system. The focus is on getting away from server centric systems and the ability to form spontaneous group shared spaces with different sets of people based on shared work. So going with ZEO seems like a step in the opposite direction, philosophically and from the point of view of functionality, since ZEO is a number of *servers* working together rather than a number of clients i.e. it's "server++" not "client++" as in Groove. Nitin Borwankar, President and CEO, Borwankar Research inc. nitin@borwankar.com
especially if it encrypted the synchronisation protocol, which is what you, Chris, mentioned doing in a previous post.
--- Alastair
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Nitin Borwankar wrote:
So going with ZEO seems like a step in the opposite direction, philosophically and from the point of view of functionality, since ZEO is a number of *servers* working together rather than a number of clients i.e. it's "server++" not "client++" as in Groove.
The difference between servers and clients is in the eye of the beholder ;-) chris
Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> writes:
Nitin Borwankar wrote:
So going with ZEO seems like a step in the opposite direction, philosophically and from the point of view of functionality, since ZEO is a number of *servers* working together rather than a number of clients i.e. it's "server++" not "client++" as in Groove.
The difference between servers and clients is in the eye of the beholder ;-)
As I understand the ZEO architecture there is one Zope Storage Server (ZSS) that handles writes and many instantiations of Client Storage (CS) that can handle reads. You would have Groove-like (groovy?) functionality if: 1) The ZODB on one site could consist of CS instantiations for several ZSS servers, each one representing a shared workspace. 2) To be fully buzzword compliant you enabled a peer-to-peer architecture. Thus a ZODB knows it wants workspace A; it looks for one on the net; if it finds one in makes a local CS for A, if not it starts a ZSS. This begs the question: what happens if two ZSS end up being started for the same workspace? I guess Groove must have some means to stop this happening, or some framework for merging changes. 3) You encrypted the synchronisation protocol between the CS's and the ZSS. Thus by adding a Persistent mixin to a Python class and adding a few well placed calls to "get_transaction().commit()", you would allow it to synchronise efficiently and securely with any other Python program on the planet. Such an architecture sounds cool. It might even be useful. --- Alastair
Alastair Burt wrote:
Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> writes:
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope
What is a fat client?
The opposite of a thin client ;-) Thin clients have no business logic happening at their end of the connection. Fat client 'do more cool stuff', as it were. Think the Lotus Notes client, as opposed to a web browser...
On a related note (I think?), how hard would it be to build a Groove-like system with ZEO?
Wow, now there's an interesting thought :-)
I have never used Groove, but it sounds like a useful groupware tool for everyman. If the basis of Groove is incremental synchronisation of shared databases, then ZEO seems to offer similar functionality, especially if it encrypted the synchronisation protocol, which is what you, Chris, mentioned doing in a previous post.
Yup, if someone could make this spin work, I'd be overjoyed. However, I think this would need some big changes at the ZODB level, so I'm not in a position to state this as a possible aim ;-) Maybe version 2? cheers, Chris
Most of what Groove does could be done with Jabber and Zope imo. Which just happens to be something I'm working on in my spare time. Already got Zope acting as a Jabber client, both natively and via xml-rpc. If anyone else is interested in this then I've got a jabber server working 24/7 which has the xml-rpc and web bits bolted on. Let me know if you want access. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> To: "Alastair Burt" <burt@dfki.de> Cc: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
Alastair Burt wrote:
Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> writes:
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat
client for
Zope
What is a fat client?
The opposite of a thin client ;-)
Thin clients have no business logic happening at their end of the connection. Fat client 'do more cool stuff', as it were. Think the Lotus Notes client, as opposed to a web browser...
On a related note (I think?), how hard would it be to build a Groove-like system with ZEO?
Wow, now there's an interesting thought :-)
I have never used Groove, but it sounds like a useful groupware tool for everyman. If the basis of Groove is incremental synchronisation of shared databases, then ZEO seems to offer similar functionality, especially if it encrypted the synchronisation protocol, which is what you, Chris, mentioned doing in a previous post.
Yup, if someone could make this spin work, I'd be overjoyed. However, I think this would need some big changes at the ZODB level, so I'm not in a position to state this as a possible aim ;-)
Maybe version 2?
cheers,
Chris
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As an addition to my previous post about jabber, someone on the Jabber-Python list is building a jabber server in Python, which it seems might become the reference implementation rather than the C version, *very interesting*. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> To: "Alastair Burt" <burt@dfki.de> Cc: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
Alastair Burt wrote:
Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> writes:
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat
client for
Zope
What is a fat client?
The opposite of a thin client ;-)
Thin clients have no business logic happening at their end of the connection. Fat client 'do more cool stuff', as it were. Think the Lotus Notes client, as opposed to a web browser...
On a related note (I think?), how hard would it be to build a Groove-like system with ZEO?
Wow, now there's an interesting thought :-)
I have never used Groove, but it sounds like a useful groupware tool for everyman. If the basis of Groove is incremental synchronisation of shared databases, then ZEO seems to offer similar functionality, especially if it encrypted the synchronisation protocol, which is what you, Chris, mentioned doing in a previous post.
Yup, if someone could make this spin work, I'd be overjoyed. However, I think this would need some big changes at the ZODB level, so I'm not in a position to state this as a possible aim ;-)
Maybe version 2?
cheers,
Chris
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Hi, You might also want to take a look at: http://www.kompany.com/products/blackadder Byron On Tuesday, May 22, 2001, at 01:38 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
Hi,
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction.
We're looking at both wxPython and Tkinter as possible windowing toolkits.
Which one would you choose? Why? ;-)
cheers,
Chris
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Byron Servies wrote:
Hi,
You might also want to take a look at:
didn't work for me... Chris
On Tuesday, May 22, 2001, at 08:30 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
Byron Servies wrote:
Hi,
You might also want to take a look at:
didn't work for me...
Ack. Sorry, sorry: http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder It's a pyQT IDE. Byron
Byron Servies wrote:
Ack. Sorry, sorry:
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder
It's a pyQT IDE.
...and isn't open source... nope, not for me ;-) Chris
<snip stuff about ZopeStudio or whatever it'll be called> Wouldn't a good place to start discussions and collaborations be a fishbowl project? Just a thought. seb
seb bacon wrote:
<snip stuff about ZopeStudio or whatever it'll be called>
Wouldn't a good place to start discussions and collaborations be a fishbowl project? Just a thought.
I have to be honest and say I find Wiki's next to useless for this kind of discussion, since I don't get prodded when new bits of discussion arrive. If Ethan could give us a mailing list that would be cool, but, to be honest, SourceForge comes with all the infrastructure nesessary, incudling mailing lists, for this kind of project, it's easy to get going and doesn't put any strain on DC's resources... cheers, Chris
Hello! On Wed, 23 May 2001, Chris Withers wrote:
Wouldn't a good place to start discussions and collaborations be a fishbowl project? Just a thought.
I have to be honest and say I find Wiki's next to useless for this kind of discussion, since I don't get prodded when new bits of discussion arrive.
I, personnaly, just hate web-based collaboration. Cameron Laird and few other people suggested me to try ZWiki. I tried. Now I hate web collaboration even more :) Let me count pros and cons of web-based collaboration against e-mail: 1. Web is "pull technology". You need to download the entire page. How many times do I need to read and reread messages on http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ExtendedDTMLSorting - just to see noone added new comment? Isn't it just a waste of traffic? On the other hand, e-mail is "push technology" - if someone replied I guaranteed to get the reply right into my mailbox. And the reply usually carries not too big amount of quoting. What web makes good is summarizing. With e-mail, one needs to summarize and publish the summary explicitly. 2. Editing text is certainly weak point of the web. It is plainly nightmare to edit text in those small <textarea>s that loose all decent editing features. With e-mail, I can use whatever editor I prefer. And think about crashing. Crashes are oftne, especially in the world of that "Blue Screen of Death" OS. But even on the more stable OSes browsers crash often. And after the crash I have to go back to that page, redownload it, and start my text from the very beginning. With e-mail and good editor, even after crash (that are very seldom, BTW), I can just restore my editing session and continue. I certainly missed many points. I'd be glad if anyone says his/her words in favor (or agains) web or email-based collaboration. Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
* Oleg Broytmann <phd@phd.fep.ru> [010523 09:50]:
Hello!
On Wed, 23 May 2001, Chris Withers wrote:
Wouldn't a good place to start discussions and collaborations be a fishbowl project? Just a thought.
I have to be honest and say I find Wiki's next to useless for this kind of discussion, since I don't get prodded when new bits of discussion arrive.
I, personnaly, just hate web-based collaboration. Cameron Laird and few other people suggested me to try ZWiki. I tried. Now I hate web collaboration even more :)
I agree with both of you. However, one thing that can be said for the fishbowl process is: you end up with a nice, standardised technical architecture and the basis for documentation in the future. Still, not necessarily a good enough reason not to use SourceForge... seb
Oleg Broytmann <phd@phd.fep.ru> writes:
I, personnaly, just hate web-based collaboration. Cameron Laird and few other people suggested me to try ZWiki. I tried. Now I hate web collaboration even more :)
Awwww! :) Care to add that quote to zwiki.org ? It needs some salt. I also detest, not the concept of web-based collaboration, but the slow, unergonomic, unusable, inefficient manifestations of it that have been so prevalent. Note that people whose setup supports very fast web browsing are often less aware of this problem. For rapid back-and-forth discussion we don't yet have anything to beat email. NB zwiki wants to become interchangeable with a mailing list, but so far only the rudimentary PageSubscribers: mechanism has been implemented. -Simon PS how exactly did it make you hate web collaboration more ? Was zwiki.org's easy comment form any help ?
On 23 May 2001, Simon Michael wrote:
Oleg Broytmann <phd@phd.fep.ru> writes:
I, personnaly, just hate web-based collaboration. Cameron Laird and few other people suggested me to try ZWiki. I tried. Now I hate web collaboration even more :)
Awwww! :) Care to add that quote to zwiki.org ? It needs some salt.
Are you trying to make me even bigger fool than I am? :))) Asking *me* to go to zwiki and edit it!! :))) Please add it yourself!!! :)))
PS how exactly did it make you hate web collaboration more ? Was zwiki.org's easy comment form any help ?
It was not ZWiki.org. It was http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ExtendedDTMLSorting I was very tired by loading and reloading the page few times a day. And editing it - 'twas nightmare. Thanks goodness the discussion is over, the point resolved, the code accepted. Goodby zwikies, hope to see you next century (but not earlier :). Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
Oleg Broytmann <phd@phd.fep.ru> writes:
Care to add that quote to zwiki.org ? It needs some salt.
Are you trying to make me even bigger fool than I am? :))) Asking *me* to go to zwiki and edit it!! :))) Please add it yourself!!! :)))
Drat! You see my cunning plan even before I do.
I was very tired by loading and reloading the page few times a day. And editing it - 'twas nightmare. Thanks goodness the discussion is over, the point resolved, the code accepted. Goodby zwikies, hope to see you next century (but not earlier :).
Ok then :) Though I'm sure you realize that no one site will give you a complete representation of zwiki's usability or lack of.
--On Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:44:24 +0400 Oleg Broytmann <phd@phd.fep.ru> wrote:
2. Editing text is certainly weak point of the web. It is plainly nightmare to edit text in those small <textarea>s that loose all decent editing features. With e-mail, I can use whatever editor I prefer.
you can edit any zwiki on zope.org with ftp. you can't yet create pages, but that looks fairly simple, so I'll get that done next week. anyway, ftp.zope.org is the place. -- ethan mindlace fremen zopatista community liason
On Thu, 24 May 2001, ethan mindlace fremen wrote:
2. Editing text is certainly weak point of the web. It is plainly nightmare to edit text in those small <textarea>s that loose all decent editing features. With e-mail, I can use whatever editor I prefer.
you can edit any zwiki on zope.org with ftp. you can't yet create pages, but that looks fairly simple, so I'll get that done next week.
anyway, ftp.zope.org is the place.
Thanks. Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ phd@phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:21:40AM -0400, ethan mindlace fremen wrote:
--On Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:44:24 +0400 Oleg Broytmann <phd@phd.fep.ru> wrote:
2. Editing text is certainly weak point of the web. It is plainly nightmare to edit text in those small <textarea>s that loose all decent editing features. With e-mail, I can use whatever editor I prefer.
you can edit any zwiki on zope.org with ftp. you can't yet create pages, but that looks fairly simple, so I'll get that done next week.
Actually, one of the goals I restarted development on gnope for is editing my wikis, like at www.technomagick.net, outside the confines of textareas. However, a document_src() method has to be added to ZWikiPage for this to work. []s, |alo +---- -- I say a prayer now our love's departed That you'll come back to stay Bring back the perfect day http://www.laranja.org/ mailto:lalo@laranja.org pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/
I tried it and found it bug-ridden and appallingly documented - did anyone else have better results? David Burton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> To: "Byron Servies" <bservies@pacang.com> Cc: <zope@zope.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] Vote for Windowing Toolkit to use for Fat Client
Byron Servies wrote:
Hi,
You might also want to take a look at:
didn't work for me...
Chris
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wxPython would be my choice. It provides more functionality and gives a native look and feel on different platforms. Works great on Windows and FreeBSD in my (short) experience. Regards, Frank --On Tuesday, May 22, 2001 09:38 +0100 Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> wrote:
Hi,
A couple of us here at NIP are playing around with building a fat client for Zope, based on Python and hopefully using a ZEO connection to do most of the interaction.
We're looking at both wxPython and Tkinter as possible windowing toolkits.
Which one would you choose? Why? ;-)
cheers,
Chris
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participants (20)
-
Alastair Burt -
albert boulanger -
Byron Servies -
Chris Withers -
David Burton -
ender -
ethan mindlace fremen -
Frank Sonnemans -
Hannu Krosing -
kosh＠aesaeion.com -
Lalo Martins -
Nitin Borwankar -
Oleg Broytmann -
Paul Everitt -
Peter Bengtsson -
Phil Harris -
Philippe Jadin -
seb bacon -
Simon Michael -
Thomas B. Passin