"Hung Jung Lu" <hungjunglu@hotmail.com> wrote:

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From: Michel Pelletier <michel@digicool.com> Tino Wildenhain wrote:

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If not, so we can all hope and wish, but not _demand_ to get the fixes :-)

I certainly wouldn't _demand_ fixes for something that is _free_. I am not that silly a person. :) But I see over and over again newbies (including myself) going through the same pain that others have already gone before. Some of the nicer people have digged into the problems and FIXED them with a patch. Sadly, I had to repeat the pain simply because I was NOT aware of the patch!

So, the question is simply: do we want all future users to go down the exact same path, or do we want to save them a little bit of time and stress, and make Zope a better brand name?

First, I changed the Collector (a week or so ago) to make "pending" issues viewable, so at least the bug reports that are there are open (unless the poster marks them as "security related" -- we would like a chance to see those before opening them up). Please give it another spin, if you were turned off by the "black hole" effect before.

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in CVS? Doubt it. Approaching the rat hole at every increasing speed.

I know. But a simple Wiki page with a simple HTTP link to a person's personal homepage will allow you to try his/her patched version at your own risk, without Digicool's integrity being involved at all. It's like a tree with a central trunk, if you know what I mean in Revision Control Systems like VSS. The branches eventually die out, but before the trunk gets a newer version, the users can try the patched versions from the branches. The patched versions don't even need to sit on zope.org website, they could sit in each individual home site (there are so many free web hosting sites out there.)

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Right now people can send a patch to the collector, but it takes us time time test it and understand it, especially if it's a deep issue.

That's totally fine and understandable. But we need to figure out a way for people to be aware of the bugs and patches right at the moment when they download a product.

This way, Digicool can even afford to release a new version only once every 6 months, say. :) Also, over time, if an outside person starts to develop a credible branch, and Digicool is too busy to take care of the trunk, we'll know it's moment to either (1) outsource the product, or (2) push the branch into zope.org and make it the trunk.

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I vote Wiki.

Sounds good. Anything that allows user to add HTTP links is good enough. If they can scribble comments, so much the better. :)

The current Collector is "dead-end" technology, slated to be phased out in favor of a "Tracker-based" solution ASAP (reducing the number of open "critical" bugs is one of my priorities now, to enable this process). Tracker (see for instance http://www.zope.org/Products/PTK/Tracker) allows discussion of its issues, which will resolve some of the points raised here, especially if the discussion can contain pointers to "outside" URLs. As a long-time Wiki fan (I turned DC on to Wiki back in February) I don't favor Wiki for this kind of information. Wiki discards history in order to favor the "evolving consensus" of its community, whereas issue tracking is more of a workflow item, where history is *important*. Squishdot would acutally be a better mechanism, or the new PTK stuff which makes any PortalContent object capable of starting a discussion. Tres. -- ========================================================= Tres Seaver tseaver@digicool.com tseaver@palladion.com