Hey Paul, Just read your article (http://www.pault.com/zope.html) and really enjoyed it (besides comparing Java to Macs... yikes!). I agree that DC needs to really work with Zope Product Developers and help them as much as possible. I build and maintain a product and there are times when working with a new release or debugging something new in Zope that I would love to have a full fledged contact at Zope. You are correct that the first thing that people ask about Zope is "What products are there for it?" and the answer is "A lot" but not all of them well supported, useful or documented. DC should encourage and then force developers to be a bit better about documentation. I have seen product developers put up a new product with the full amount of documentation about it being "here it is... have fun." This certainly does not help all of those people who want to install and use Zope products. DC can encourage better product development and documentation by doing simple things such as T-shirt contest for best product documentation, tip, how-to and all the rest. Maybe a monthly thing that gets and keeps everyone involved. Did you see how much time people spent over at ZopeZen.org just to get that T-shirt. A sense of fun and excitement can go a long way. I also like the idea of a Zope Product Zone that links from the home page. "Downloads" does not really get the point across to most people of the depth of stuff there. Basic stuff such as how to analyze the stats and how to find a good Zope hosting provider would also go a long way. Anyway.. I wanted to thank you for you thoughts and ideas. I have CC'd the Zope mailing list (where all the developers really live) so as to share the response and encourage more. Thanks, J
Just read your article (http://www.pault.com/zope.html) and really enjoyed it (besides comparing Java to Macs... yikes!). I agree that DC needs to really work with Zope Product Developers and help them as much as possible.
Have you looked at the Zope Directions document recently posted on dev.zope.org? http://dev.zope.org/Resources/ZopeDirections.html Dramatically lowering the bar for developers to create quality components is our number one priority going forward. It will be evolutionary and not happen all at once, but it will be happening.
DC should encourage and then force developers to be a bit better about documentation. I have seen product developers put up a new product with the full amount of documentation about it being "here it is... have fun." This certainly does not help all of those people who want to install and use Zope products. DC can encourage better product development and documentation by doing simple things such as T-shirt contest for best product documentation, tip, how-to and all the rest.
One idea we've kicked around is to make the eventual "components area" on zope.org such that component users can provide some +1 -1 type feedback that is incorporated into the way that components are listed on the site. This would let the most popular / best components appear at the top of listings etc. Brian Lloyd brian@digicool.com Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com
One idea we've kicked around is to make the eventual "components area" on zope.org such that component users can provide some +1 -1 type feedback that is incorporated into the way that components are listed on the site. This would let the most popular / best components appear at the top of listings etc.
Brian Lloyd brian@digicool.com
This is a good idea. Two charming interfaces using this to inspire you can be found at RHIZOME: http://rhizome.org/starrynight/ and http://rhizome.org/spiral/ enjoy - Jason
Some tips that could be implemented in a few days/weeks on the zope website: [sorry if those are a bit "rude", but I feel that some little things would make the zope site even better, and since some of those are very simple things, I don't see any other option than applying them now ;-) ] - have a longer description of search results. Those are +- 25 chars long, it's a strange idea to have only the beginning of the title. A short description should be included. If a document has a "description" property, include it under the title link. Each memeber of the site should be encouraged to include a "description" property to his objects. - have a 1-10 rating for products, and gives the ability to rate products (eventually with comments). Give the opportunity to sort the products based on rating. Display the category of each product in the product list. Each object on the website should be rate-able. Any visitor should be able to rate any object on the site. The search engine should use this information. - Create a product documentation framework. A simple text file with all the titles would be sufficient. Even better, in the member area, add another type of product : "documentation", with all the properties ready to be filled up. Authors are lazy, because they do it for free, so let's help them (us). - Create a product repository separated from the members page. It's strange to have products stored on the members page. A product has nothing to do with a member beside the fact that he is the author. No one search a product based on author. There is something strange : the product area already exists, but it contains the information to download zope itself. Products are listed at the bottom of the page. I'm not sure everyone sees them. Separate the main zope downloads and the products downloads. Microsoft doesn't mix windows and office pages after all... - Give something better than the empty member page (see : http://www.zope.org/Members ). With zope's wonderfull versions, it should be easy to keep "the maintenance" outside the live website. Maintenance pages should never exist on a zope powered site. Give at least a listing of all the members. It's 3 lines of dtml. Or did I miss something? - and if something doesn't work, at least you'll have tried... I firmly believe that zope is powerfull enough now. What I (as a semi-newbie) need for now is: - documentation - tutorials ...and a very good website. As a newbie, when I come to the zope website, It's bit like when I first tried zope : it looked powerfull, but some of the features were hard to find. Anyway, let me say that zope is the best thing that hapened to my computer since well... hum... since... since a very long time anyway ! Philippe
Have you looked at the Zope Directions document recently posted on dev.zope.org?
http://dev.zope.org/Resources/ZopeDirections.html
Dramatically lowering the bar for developers to create quality components is our number one priority going forward. It will be evolutionary and not happen all at once, but it will be happening.
participants (4)
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Brian Lloyd -
J. Atwood -
Jason Cunliffe -
Philippe J