Dieter Fischer wrote:

Hello Thomas

There are two possibilities:

the positive one:

- The zope community is rapidly growing

the negative one:

- jboss has a better documentation, and all the zope users are googeling for help ;-)

LOL, in the same vain: Search term: hits on google: zope: 5,470,000 jboss: 330,000 But (here we go): zope -bug: 1,380,000 jboss -bug: 200,000 But at least you can find twice as much "hot chicks" together with zope than together with jboss ;). cheers, oliver

At 10:59 AM 2/12/2003, Santoshi Reddy wrote:

I will add my voice to Zope.but i have to say the documentation definately needs to improve.

S.

As a brain-damaged Java hacker, I have this point of view. Java is pretty nice, that is, it is nice because I'm able to hack stuff that works in Java. And, that's about it. Using the same metric, I'm stuck with the idea that Python sucks, but that's because I'm not able to hack stuff (yet) that works in Python. I plan to change that. Using Zope, however, is not turning out to be the "light-switch easy" task I hoped it would be. I downloaded the JBoss exe installer, installed it, and presto! JBoss came up on localhost immediately. I downloaded Zope 2.6.0 exe, installed it, and presto! Zope camp up on localhost immediately. So far, so good. Where's the beef (imho)? Zope is cool because it has so many, as you call them, products. I saw a John Graham demo that would leave anybody salivating over what you can do right out of the box with Zope, Plone, and a bunch of other stuff. Nothing like that, really, exists for JBoss, though some incredibly powerful, well-funded "products" already exist in Java that do much the same stuff (e.g. DSpace, and many others). Both environments, for me, share one overriding set of problems, all associated with versions of python, java and other stuff. For instance, I installed 2.6, then installed Silva and all its goodies, only to find out that the problems I encountered were thought to be associated with the fact that Silva had only been tested on 2.5.1, so I installed 2.5.1 and, well, the problems still exist, and I'm lead (by way of email postings) to suspect that there is some difficulty associated with PyXML and so forth. I've had the same experiences with Java, but in that environment, I know where to look; in Zope, I am lost. Is one better than the other? I don't know the answer to that. I think both may be essentially the same in some sense, with the primary criteria being familiarity. Theoretically speaking, JBoss has tackled the scalability issues. I have yet to find that Zope has done the same. My 0.02 EUROs Cheers Jack Park --------------------------------------------------------------------------- XML Topic Maps: Creating and Using Topic Maps for the Web. Addison-Wesley. Jack Park, Editor. Sam Hunting, Technical Editor Build smarter kids globally to reduce the need for smarter bombs.

On Thursday 13 February 2003 04:51, Paul Winkler wrote:

On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 11:26:05AM -0800, Jack Park wrote:

...

... Theoretically speaking, JBoss has tackled the scalability issues. I have yet to find that Zope has done the same.

A ZEO cluster running behind Squid... if that's not fault-tolerant or distributed enough, use DirectoryStorage and have automated replication of multiple ZEO clusters. Theoretically this could scale to really enormous amounts of data serving enormous numbers of users.

how can we replicate with DirStorage? would you mind doing a little brain dump? with rsync? thanks -- http://www.kedai.com.my/ http://www.kedai.com.my/eZine http://www.zope.org/Members/kedai http://www.my-zope.org How can I laugh tomorrow, if i can't even smile today.

On Thursday 13 February 2003 1:53 am, Paul Winkler wrote:

...

how can we replicate with DirStorage? would you mind doing a little brain dump? with rsync?

rsync has to stat every inode in the directory. That sucks. Version 1.0 has a whatsnew.py script that uses the normal undo log information to work out what files have changed since a historic transaction id. This is used by the incremental backup tool in version 1.0 and the replication script in 1.1, and makes them maximally efficient in I/O terms. (just remember to keep enough history when packing to cover your backup/replication interval)

I am not really the person to ask, as I haven't actually done it.

But you know you want to ;-)

But here's the official way to do it as of version 1.1: http://dirstorage.sourceforge.net/replica.html

That document has been updated in the last week, it now has a more detailed howto. Essentially, on the replica machine run: "replica.py masterzeohost:/var/master /var/replica" and it should "just work"

I would naively assume that you *should* be able to replicate by 1) putting the "master" into snapshot mode 2) running rsync 3) taking the "master" out of snapshot mode

... but there may be hidden issues with that; I would kind of assume so, since Toby Dickenson bothered to write the replication tool. Toby, are you reading this? Care to comment?

That will kinda work, apart from the performance issues mentioned above. Take care over locking on the replica; you dont want replication to restart when the master comes back up after an outage, with the storage still running on the slave. The big problem with this is that rsync is not atomic. If the master explodes half way through an rsync then the replica may contain half of the most recent transaction. 1.1 might still be in alpha, but I am sure it is more stable than anything based on rsync. As always, I am already using it in production. Replicating once per minute and performing a full check on the replica storage once per hour. It is looking good so far. -- Toby Dickenson http://www.geminidataloggers.com/people/tdickenson

On Thursday 13 February 2003 7:22 pm, Paul Winkler wrote:

what could make the master "explode" if it's in snapshot mode? catastrophic failure of some kind?

Yes, I mean a failure outside the software system.... The thing you are trying to defend against by having a replica.

Dare I ask for a 1.1 timeline?

I havent put any thought into the schedule beyond alpha release yet. -- Toby Dickenson http://www.geminidataloggers.com/people/tdickenson

Zope has a *very* active online user community. JBoss has a website. Heck, how many of those hits are Wikis?

Its called infinte recursion the secret google weapon :) Heck how many of those hits are to http://www.zope.org/Products/Products/Products/Products/Products/Products -- Andy McKay