hi folks, i have been looking at several varieties of the acl_users folder, and there seem to be three -- in one, there are three tabs, contents, security, and undo; in the second, there are four tabs, contents, properties, security, and undo; and in the third there are also four, but these are contents, security, undo, and ownership. the third is with a brand new install of zope 2.3, which i downloaded last week and installed with no problems at all. the other two varieties are both found on the same server running the same version of zope, 2.1.6. the reason i ask is that i have created a series of users in order to provide management access to a very limited set of resources, separate from the rest of the site. when i go to the directory by pointing the browser directly to it, i get a zope error that AUTHENTICATED_USER does not exist due to a missing docLogin method. so far the only way i remember seeing docLogin method is in version # 2, under the properties. the error trace points back to the role manager, but i changed some of these for this folder, and still the same result. i am really quite confused, as i have used this method quite successfully in other folders in our site, and have not had this much trouble. one solution, though it would be kludgey would be to copy an acl_users folder from one of the folders where it does work, but i would much rather find out why it does work in one instance and why it doesn't in the other. any pointers to appropriate howtos or documentation on this would be greatly appreciated. i have found that the details of the authentication process are along the steepest and slipperiest parts of the learning curve for zope. i've read as much of the documentation on authenticating and de-authenticating logins as i can find, and the basic orientation of the parts to each other tend to be covered, but there is scarely anything on the internal (like at the point of the core code) that actually explains how the data are being passed and handled from the browser to the base. anyway, sorry to sound like i'm whining. ciao! greg. Gregory Haley DBA/Web Programmer Venaca, LLC