On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 10:17:55AM -0200, Sidnei da Silva wrote: | | Andy McKay wrote [about the Zope3 newsletter]: | | >Great, could this be going on Zope.org instead of the never updated Zope | | >News? | | | | Whatever happened to new.zope.org? | | | | Chris [Withers] | | http://www.zopezen.org/Members/zopista/News_Item.2002-10-16.0216 | | I will post my comments later on this. Well, its been one week since I said I would comment on this. Ive been talking with some people here and there and came up with this. Please excuse-me from the long post, but theres a real need to clarify the situation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- As Kapil mentioned, 'its in the works'. http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2002-October/002998.html I've been talking with people from ZC since early June, when Paul hadnt leaved to EuroZope yet. And I've been involved with NZO since March. A little bit of history: As you can see, its been a looooong time since this started, and just to point out, the NZO Odyssey (as I like to call it) started far far back, in middle 2001. Here is a link to the oldproject wiki, called ZopeOrgCollaborationEnhancement: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ZopeOrgCollaborationEnhancement/F... After Sept 2001, the projectstalled, apparently because the guy who was in charge of this project left ZC and no one was able to take over from where he stopped. Around late Feb 2002, Paul tried to get the project going again by calling the community to help creating skin mockups and integrating this with a sandbox setup that was living on: http://nzo.zope.org:8080/ZopeOrg. As you can see, that address doesnt even resolve anymore. A lot of people joined the project and were actually contributing, but we had trouble because the box was firewalled, no one had access to it and some day the box got down for around 10 days with no one to bring it up again. By this time, I was getting bored of working on NZO, because we had a working sandbox setup, but we had to wait for ZC to migrate the content to the new setup (with CMF 1.2 and Zope2.5) but unfortunately everyone at ZC was very busy working on customer projects. Then I've set up a NZO sandbox at my server: http://zope.x3ng.com.br:8080/ZopeOrg (its slow like hell, but still up). Ausum is still working on it and I think its the only person besides me that is actually working on NZO today. In late July 2002, Paul was about to leave ZC to head EuroZope, and I was afraid that NZO could fall into complete stagnation without him leading the effort. Then spoke with Paul about this and he forwarded me to Rob Page, CEO and President of ZC. And now, what is going on? Well, from then on, I got access to a box with a copy of Zope.org and wrote a series of Proposals and Use Cases, Milestone Plans, and all this things that are common on a project as big as this. Some of this documentation can be found here: http://www.zope.org/projects/nzo Other parts are being kept private between me and Rob cause he wanted to assemble a complete Project Plan before investing on NZO. By this time, he is reviewing my latest Milestones list, which has an estimative of around 2 months to get NZO online, with Zope2.6, CMF1.3, CMFBacktalk, ZWiki 0.11 and all the bells and whistles, plus around 45 days to build a skin for NZO. ******** Heads up! this part is interesting :) *********** Last week, Guido pronounced his oppinion about NZO on an email to Zope3-dev mailing list: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2002-October/003005.html From this point I started discussing the future of NZO with Guido and he volunteered to be the leading man inside ZC for the NZO Project. Rob agreed with this and Guido is going to start when he gets back from his Geek Cruise (yummy!). ********************************************************** Well, thats basically it. Its a long story, and it hasnt ended yet. Theres a long path yet and a lot of man hours involved to get this done, as Paul pointed out on the Zope-web mailing list. And working with a company as big as ZC is not easy. They have a bazillion projects going at the same time and its difficult to get their attention as fast as we want, but *I hope* that things will behave accordingly and after all we can get NZO around the corner and make Zope grow 10x like Paul envisioned last December. Long live Zope! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- []'s -- Sidnei da Silva (dreamcatcher) <sidnei@x3ng.com.br> X3ng Web Technology <http://www.x3ng.com.br> GNU/Linux user 257852 Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (Sid) 2.4.18 ppc This is an unauthorized cybernetic announcement.
Thanks for the summary, sounds fascinating. My personal 2p? Unless ZC relinquish bottleneck control over zope.org, it ain't gonna happen. Given the current pathetic excuse of a site at zope.org (crap searching, UI, outdates content, etc) we can hardly expect Zope to grow at all, let alone the 10x promised last year. We aren't 10x bigger now, and we won't ever be at the rate things are going. Will ZC realise this in time? cheers, Chris
I agree with Chris and I hope that we will get NZO done in the near future with the help of Sidnei from the community side and Guido on the ZC side. There has been too much wasted effort in the past on this project without results. I remember that Jens and I worked very hard on migration issues and a new product for software releases in the summer of 2001...it has been a bit frustrating to see that this work did not bring NZO forward. We all know that we *need* a new zope.org because current.zope.org sucks like hell. I am pretty sure there are enough people in the community willing to contribute. As an example, the German Zope User Group (www.dzug.org) built its web site during some month. Ok...the site is not as complex as zope.org but people are willing to contribute if they can see results and they don't like to work in an ancient working environment (...all these tiny textareas everywhere on zope.org ;-)). Cheers, Andreas --On Montag, 28. Oktober 2002 17:33 +0000 Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> wrote:
Thanks for the summary, sounds fascinating.
My personal 2p?
Unless ZC relinquish bottleneck control over zope.org, it ain't gonna happen. Given the current pathetic excuse of a site at zope.org (crap searching, UI, outdates content, etc) we can hardly expect Zope to grow at all, let alone the 10x promised last year.
We aren't 10x bigger now, and we won't ever be at the rate things are going.
Will ZC realise this in time?
cheers,
Chris
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--------------------------------------------------------------------- - Andreas Jung http://www.andreas-jung.com - - EMail: andreas at andreas-jung.com - - "Life is too short to (re)write parsers" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Unless ZC relinquish bottleneck control over zope.org, it ain't gonna happen. Given the current pathetic excuse of a site at zope.org (crap searching, UI, outdates content, etc) we can hardly expect Zope to grow at all, let alone the 10x promised last year.
I hear you. I'm now officially in charge of this project (that's what I get for opening my mouth :-). Things should get moving as soon as I've had some quality time with Rob Page. --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
On 28/10/02 9:30 pm, "Guido van Rossum" <guido@python.org> wrote:
Unless ZC relinquish bottleneck control over zope.org, it ain't gonna happen. Given the current pathetic excuse of a site at zope.org (crap searching, UI, outdates content, etc) we can hardly expect Zope to grow at all, let alone the 10x promised last year.
I hear you. I'm now officially in charge of this project (that's what I get for opening my mouth :-).
Things should get moving as soon as I've had some quality time with Rob Page.
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
"and there was much rejoicing"... Great news! Tone. -- Dr Tony McDonald, Assistant Director, FMCC, http://www.fmcc.org.uk/ The Medical School, Newcastle University Tel: +44 191 243 6140 A Zope list for UK HE/FE http://www.fmcc.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/zope
What's that I see? Is that a happy Newcastle fan? Surely not! European form in tatters, hopes hanging by a thread! .....threads....snapping.....aaaaaaaaggggggggghhhhhhhhh! Oh, hi Tone, didn't see you there :) Bye Phil
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Unless ZC relinquish bottleneck control over zope.org, it ain't gonna happen. Given the current pathetic excuse of a site at zope.org (crap searching, UI, outdates content, etc) we can hardly expect Zope to grow at all, let alone the 10x promised last year.
I hear you. I'm now officially in charge of this project (that's what I get for opening my mouth :-).
Have you been given a time budget?
Things should get moving as soon as I've had some quality time with Rob Page.
I've got a large stick you can borrow if needed ;-) cheers, Chris
participants (7)
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Andreas Jung -
Chris Withers -
Guido van Rossum -
Phil Harris -
robert -
Sidnei da Silva -
Tony McDonald